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Re: The new broken world of 2.6, ALSA, and hotplug.

* Riku Voipio <riku.voipio@iki.fi> [040331 20:28]:
> Please try to think yourself in the shoes of a newbie. You, as a 
> expert/poweruser can easily override hotplugs behaviour to workaround bugs in 
> the _kernel_. 

Well, I had to help some newbies that were bitten by hotplug. And I
personally prefer to deinstall it on computers newbies have to cope
with, as I as "expert" might now what to do, a newbie is helpless in
regard with hotplug.

> A newbie will not know how to populate /etc/modules .

I don't know what kind of newbies you are talking about. But I found 
having a file where one can place names in and a directory with the names 
in it and a command called modprobe to try which one it is, to be a
concept so easily that anyone can understand it, that is able to use a

> A user 
> wont know which module corresponds to his/her foobar-extreme networking card, 
> It should just work out of box. The alternative is to have the same effect is 
> to run something incredibly kludgy like kudzu at boot time.

Well, there are surely worse situations.

> We already have an bug (#240582) to have an option to disable pci hotplugging, 
> feel free to help finishing the work with it.
> And it's not hotplugs fault that various modules cause crash with 
> powermanagment, or drain battery more than they should. We should really
> use more time fixing the problems rather than working them around.

It's not hotplugs fault that kernel modules crashes, or that unloading
pcmcia modules hangs a computer or or or. But these are all problems you
do not have without hotplug. And while I agree the problems are really
something that should be fixed, running hotplug is simply a risky
operation, as it exposes one to all those problems. (It's like running
over a street without looking left or right. If the drivers can't
brake it's their fault. But I would not suggest to do it at all...)

  Bernhard R. Link

Sendmail is like emacs: A nice operating system, but missing
an editor and a MTA.

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