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Re: Packaging _still_ wasteful for many large packages

Matt Zimmerman <mdz@debian.org> writes:

> On Wed, Feb 18, 2004 at 04:59:59PM -0500, Joey Hess wrote:
> > Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
> > > The problem is that every byte not shared is multiplied by 11 (soon
> > > 12), extra Packages on the other hand only add a few bytes to the
> > > Packages file. 
> > 
> > More like a kilobyte per package, per Packages file. Yes, I have done
> > the math, and it's not clear to me if a few kilobytes downloaded daily
> > by many of our users, some on thin pipes, has a lesser cost than a few
> > megabytes sitting in a few mirrors. Especially since bandwidth is
> > generally more expensive than disk. That's why I asked where the dividing
> > line is.
> The archive uses bandwidth, too; that of mirror operators via the mirror
> pulse and downloads of debs by users.
> The difference, of course, is that a huge number of users download the
> Packages files, while only a (potentially very small) portion of them
> download the large packages (though both mozilla and emacs were included in
> the original list).

If the data is in an -all package people will still download it. No
change there. A difference is only there when people have more than
one architecture or run a mirror for more than one arch.

Now whats the ratio of single arch users to multi arch (+mirrors)?

And is traffic realy a problem? When was the last time a mirror
complained about the mirror needing to much bandwith and when too much
diskspace? I noticed several diskspace concerns the last year but no
bandwith concerns (apart from ftp-master lately, which would greatly
benefit from this) but I wasn't looking for them.

> > If we do not do something, Debian may be completly unusable for dialup
> > users within a few years. I can already only manage to update my
> > unstable systems once a week. Is this important? More or less important
> > than the number of mirrors we can field?
> This is a general Internet phenomenon, not limited to Debian.  A large
> fraction of popular websites are practically unusable over dialup links.
> Fortunately, available bandwidth to end users seems to be increasing
> exponentially, while the Debian archive seems more geometric.

Adding an rsync/diff/cnysr like method to apt-get and mirrors becomes
more and more pressing it seems.


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