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Re: Do we need policy changes?

On Sun, 20 Apr 2003, Eduard Bloch wrote:
> > On Sun, 20 Apr 2003, Nikolai Prokoschenko wrote:
> > > The point is actually that deb??an (and others) doesn't care much about
> > > internationalization, no matter what they say. I'm just trying to be
> > 
> > Go away.  
> Come on, is fscking wish reports a good way to communicate with users?

Of course it is not.  But you get the treatment you ask for... and being
insulting IS asking to be ignored or insulted back.  Since it is an user
report, I was quite civilized...

> > If you think something is actively being i18n/l10n unfriendly, file a bug
> > against that.  The correct severity is either grave (if it is a required
> Against what? Who is to blame? Who cares? For example, as user, I would like

Well, you don't have to care much about it. Any Debian maintainer worth the
name knows how to reassign bug reports.

> mlterm to work with UTF8 out of the box when I install (bogus)
> utf8-environment package plus language-ru? See #186983 and tell us how
> you, as maintainer, could _ensure_ that the damn thing works (with the
> best font for this charset environment) _and_ works like the user expects it.

"Ensure"?  I would create a sub-project "Debian-desktop-RU" that had all
defaults tweaked so that it would work.  I don't think there is anything
else you can do that will *ensure* it will always be at best .ru condition.

There is also the often-forgotten X resources.  Configure everything
correctly through it...  It is not impossible to get all packages to
cooperate enough that you can do so.  And a X term that can't handle
resources is so broken, it deserves a grave bug to keep it out of Debin
stable until it learns to do so [I am speaking this with my Debian QA hat

Then package the resources and call it debian-desktop-ru or something.

> but a) who is debian-desktop and b) how should debian-desktop (whoever
> it is, most likely the each maintianer) deal with it without having a
> sane structure to make things flexible?

Well, what is missing to have this "sane structure"?  Propose it well
enough, and if someone that can implement it starts, it will be done.


> > And the fix for that bug might not be what you expect, AND still be a proper
> > fix.
> Oh please, he is a pure USER. It is nasty to deal with charset switching

I don't know if you noticed yet, but being a pure user in Debian does not
mean we will assume you are a braindead moron that cannot think or learn for
yourself.  That is exactly what set us appart from other distros.  And yes,
this DOES have its drawbacks sometimes.

> other distributions), but the last (user-relevant) step of the setup is
> not user-friendly at all.

Then work at improving it.  UTF8 in Debian is _very_ imature still, and even
a "how to make your package UTF-8 friendly" document that you could write (and
posted to d-devel and d-desktop if you don't know better places to put it
in, since someone will read it and update the other stuff with it if it is
good enough) would help things immensely.

But don't be insulting at the people who DO spend a lot of effort with l18n
while you're at it.

  "One disk to rule them all, One disk to find them. One disk to bring
  them all and in the darkness grind them. In the Land of Redmond
  where the shadows lie." -- The Silicon Valley Tarot
  Henrique Holschuh

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