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Re: Free bigot flame burning, time to think.



On Sat, Nov 16, 2002 at 12:25:32AM +1100, Hamish Moffatt wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 14, 2002 at 01:08:02PM -0600, John Goerzen wrote:
> > On Thu, Nov 14, 2002 at 07:41:02AM -0800, Osamu Aoki wrote:
> > > I believe "Free and GNU are good, bigot of any kind is bad."
> > 
> > Excuse me, but I have demonstrated more than once in this very discussion
> > that I do not fit the definition of bigot.  If there is any doubt in your
> 
> One of dictionary.com's definitions of bigot, to use one of Branden's
> tactics:
> 
> "A person who regards his own faith and views in matters of religion as
> unquestionably right, and any belief or opinion opposed to or differing
> from them as unreasonable or wicked."
> 
> from Webster's revised unabridged dictionary.
> 
> Which part of this definition doesn't apply?

Aside from jocular remarks (and flamebait), I haven't seen anyone liken
Free Software to religion, and I also haven't seen John characterize
anyone as unreasonable or wicked for disagreeing with him.  Since the
definition is conjunctive, the appellation fails even *if* one presumes
that Free Software is a "religious" issue.

> It says that developers who oppose non-free (such as yourself) are not
> required to maintain non-free packages, so there is no resource issue.

Developers who oppose the eating of meat are not required to do so by
the Debian Social Contract; that doesn't mean Debian has any place
operating butcher's shops for the benefit of our users.

> > Then why to the opponents to non-free removal continue to trot out examples
> > of "essential" bits of non-free software, even after the free alternatives
> > have been developed for what was once "essential" non-free software?
> 
> Because they haven't been in all cases.

Depends on what your standard of "alternative" is.

For instance, a lot of people feel that Mozilla, Konqueror, Galeon, et
al. are all viable Free replacements for Netscape 4.77.  Others don't.

Who's right?

> Perhaps we should be reviewing the non-free package list. Susan has
> posted one which is suitable.

A useless exercise until we know what we mean by "alternative" or
"replacement".

-- 
G. Branden Robinson                |      A fundamentalist is someone who
Debian GNU/Linux                   |      hates sin more than he loves
branden@debian.org                 |      virtue.
http://people.debian.org/~branden/ |      -- John H. Schaar

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