Re: Ask yourself some questions (was: Discussion - non-free software removal)
Branden Robinson wrote:
> So I think each of us should install the "vrms" package, run it, look
> over the results, and ask ourselves a few questions:
(this is an aggregate of my three personal debian systems)
amiwm The Amiga look-alike window manager
daemontools A collection of tools for managing UNIX services.
djbdns Replacement for BIND, written by Dan Bernstein.
doc-html-w3 [EBOOK-DEV] Recommendations of the W3
dxpc a differential X protocol compressor
gsfonts-other Additional fonts for the ghostscript interpreter
lha lzh archiver
libforms0.89 The XForms graphical interface widget library
navigator-base-477 Navigator base support for version 4.77
navigator-smotif-477 Netscape Navigator 4.77 (static Motif)
netpbm-nonfree Graphics conversion tools (nonfree).
netscape-base-477 4.77 base support for netscape
netscape-java-477 Netscape Java support for version 4.77
pine-tracker Tracks pine uploads.
ucspi-tcp-src Source only package for building ucspi-tcp binary pack
xanim Plays multimedia files (animations, pictures, and soun
xmame-x X binaries for Multiple Arcade Machine Emulator
> What's in this list makes Debian more attractive than Red Hat,
> SuSE, some other Linux distribution, Windows XP, or Mac OS X?
nothing. i wish i could remember how dxpc got installed, as that one i
don't remember installing. perhaps as a Suggests? it does not appear to
be a Depends: at all.
> What in this list is even *available* in the alternative
> operating system I might consider using?
don't know. the important stuff (daemontools, djbdns, qmail, ucspi-tcp)
i would happily compile myself (on one of my systems, that is exactly
what i did)
> What have I done to help Debian and Free Software have
> equivalent or superior alternatives to the packages in this
> list, and thus increase the appeal of Debian and Free Software
> to other users of these packages or the programs in them?
hmm. thats tougher. honestly, the only ``killer apps'' in that list,
outside of djb-ware, is xmame-x and xanim. lha and libforms is around
only because of LyX, which i don't use that much, if ever. xanim is
questionable, thanks to mplayer.
i really should go --purge netscape right now. and pine-tracker. (that
freed up 16.6MB)
> How much do I really care about software freedom? Do I really
> just prefer to get stuff at no charge?
personally, i do care about freedom. if i didn't, i'd just as easily
pirate everything.
> Anyway:
>
> Does Debian have the right to decide whether or not to terminate a
> service?
absolutely.
> Does the service belong to Debian, or must it remain forever, as a
> public entitlement, completely irrelevant of the level of desire of
> the public to use it?
it is a service of the Debian Project, and if the Debian Project
(through the process of a GR) decides that we no longer wish to provide
it, we will not.
> Whose freedom are we talking about?
the purpose of the GR, as i read it, is to eliminate the end-user
confusion as to what is part of the Debian OS and what is not. our
system is so efficient and so effective, that the line is blurred. i
think that is a positive testament to our advanced package tool, more
than anything else.
if we moved non-free to some i-have-never-heard-of-debian-at-all.org
server, and continued to ask about it in the installer, and adding the
proper deb lines to sources.list, then the line is _still_ blurred. the
net effect would be nothing, except perhaps some back-patting by the
proponents.
if no such server were found or provided, then there is the possibility
of lots of little apt-get'able repositories all over. the net result
would be admin exasperation of trying to find all the non-free
repositories. or a debfind.prg might pop up to act as a clearinghouse
for such things. proponents may feel that is a fitting end for non-free
software.
there also exist variants on a theme (central repository / no installer
question being one) but i beleive the gist of the message comes through.
this really is a pragmatic vs idealistic question. do we, as a project,
stick to the ideals of Free Software, or do we continue with our
pragmatic approach, with non-free in a sort-of leper-colony?
would our users be hurt by such a removal? very likely. otherwise, there
would be no effective change (see scenario one). would we be dedicated
to free software? yes, absolutely.
as it stands, if this GR comes to a vote, i will vote against it. i
believe that our users would be unduly harmed by it. in the spirit of
full disclosure, i maintain no non-free packages.
-john
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