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Bug#159606: general: Gnome packaging crash prone, Xsession.

> Package: general

Learn to file specific bugs...

> I've found a few problems with the X startups: which often don't really
> start X :)

The problems you are describing are NOT X startup problems. X is running
when you have problems with gdm...

> I think many user problems would go away if permissions were checked when
> gnome installs (or perms were tested in cron run).  Since permission
> checks are somewhat standard in other packages, this should be possible.

Be specific!

> I find gnome is far to suceptible to not working.  You log in with gdm

I never had problems with gnome since the < 1.2 days.

> and then get kicked out - back to gdm.  You finally get in (likely
> by giving up your old desktop), you have no login environment.  You

What do you consider a "login environment"?

> uninstall and reinstall - but required files are still missing.  Load

Which files, mine are all here since the first install.

> gmc: sometimes it closes and opens in a loop.

I don't use gmc. Find out what the bug is with gmc, and file a bug
report there.

> When Gnome doesn't load it often leaves no log messages or console
> messages as to why: you'd have to get the source or just guess.

Incorrect. GDM logs them all to .gnome-errors. Xsession logs them to

> GDM BUG:  GDM does not really login users correctly:

File such bugs against "gdm", not against "general"...

> 	--> GDM logs in the user without a login ENVIRONMENT <--

incorrect. GDM just runs the sessions in /etc/gdm/Sessions and the
Default Session there, "Gnome" does evaluate your login defaults...

> 	--> XDM logs in the user WITH a POSIX login ENVIRONMENT <-- 
> 	(xdm can launch gnome easily)   

Just like the "Xsession" Session type in GDM i guess...

> 	works until GDM enters the picture).  I wrote the author
> 	and of course got no reply.

I guess because you never looked at the config files in /etc/gdm
nor did give any specific problem but all your problems are "general"?

> DEBIAN BUG:  Xsession

Which "Xsession"? File a bug against the correct package, please.

> 	However, Xsession breaks the POSIX starup rule that allows the
> 	user to control their own starup in their home directory(s).

Are you sure you are using the Debian packages????
I use ".Xsession" and ".gnomerc" and they work fine.
Just like in the docs.

> # Personally, that is why I like Motif - its seldom "surprising", seldom
> # not functional.  KDE?  Nice.  But its not all open source and it crashes too
> # much.  But definitely nice.

Uhm, as you might have heard, QT is now OpenSource... since a year at

> ALL=".gnome .gnome-desktop .gnome_private Desktop"
> ALL="$ALL "".sawfish .sawmill .mc"
> for x in $ALL
> do
> 	for y in $(find $x -type d) ; do chmod +xr $y ; done
> 	chown -R $USER:$USER $x
> 	chmod -R +r $x
> done

So you are chmod'ing "+r" .gnome_private... ever wondered *why* it is
called _private??? Because you ICQ password etc. is stored there by

"chown -R $USER:$USER $x" <-- works only if you have one-group-per-user
with the same name. BAD. This also needs root privileges. Bad.
You mess with the USERS files. Bad.

> # X's authority mechanism do report errors correctly.  But here we go.
> chown $USER:$USER .Xauthority .ICEauthority

whoever chown'ed these to something else must have been root - and thus
should be not given the root password any more...

I do NOT know what you are doing on your system, but i guess you made
some very broken defaults in /etc/skel, and thus broke your users'
configuration... But it is not Debian's task to fix your broken system
(and by that breaking the systems of others which do set these
permissions for a reason...)

For example your script will break systems where gnome config files are
INTENTIONALLY chown'ed root, so a user (think of a kiosk mode) cannot
change certain stuff...

Well, my final point is:
- all problems you describe i CANNOT reproduce (well, i don't have
gmc...) and thus i think _you_ broke something on your system...
- your "fixes" are very likely to break stuff for others.
- the "fixes" you are describing here could probably go into
   /etc/gdm/Sessions/whatever, but NOT into the postinst script...

Well, as i don't maintain any of these packages that you seem to have
problems with, nothing left for me to do... Why did you file it against
"general"? Its no "general" bug, but everything is related to specific
packages... (for example it's X11-desktop-specific...)


        erich@(mucl.de|debian.org)        --        GPG Key ID: 4B3A135C
             The best things in life are free: Friendship and Love.
       Wer nicht zuweilen zuviel empfindet, der empfindet immer zuwenig.
                    Der Wissende weiß, dass er glauben muß.

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