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Re: Editor Priorities


At Thu, 9 May 2002 16:38:40 +1000 (EST),
Matthew Palmer wrote:

> I'll ask the opposite question - why give priority to them, just because
> they happen to support multi-languages?  I thing there are several more
> important aspects to an editor than that.  If they're in Debian, they can be
> pulled down via a task package (or equivalent) for users wanting that
> particular language.

Because multi-language is a mandatory feature for a certain amount
of users.  Yes, task package helps a lot.  However, when a task package
installs an alternative multilingual software, it should have higher
priority than standard softwares or otherwise the task package doesn't
have effects.

> So on the one hand, there are easy ways to do so, but it takes years to do
> it?  That seems like a *damn* good reason to do it, from my point of view as
> a volunteer software developer.  You did it because it matters to you.  I
> don't do it because it takes years to do.  Somehow I'm a racist for not
> volunteering my time for years of work?  So, I guess anyone who doesn't
> spend all their time volunteering for Meals on Wheels is ageist.

You don't understand my point, or my words were not sufficient.
I never force you to work years to improve i18n.  It is just my
choice to do so.  On the other hand, my proposal (i18n-related
priority terms) is very easy and it takes only one minute instead
of years.

> > However, in this case, priority in Debian alternative system is
> > completely Debian's problem, not upstream problem.  
> Yeah, but mandating a particular preference to fuel somebody's agenda is
> wrong.  Just like mandating that all emacs packages have a higher priority
> than vi packages, or something else equally inane.  The package is there,
> after all, and while integration is an issue, mandating priorities is not
> the solution.

I don't understand your point.  Then how do you justify other terms
(such as "online manuals", "redo/undo support", and so on) ?  What
is the difference between these terms and my terms?

IMO, the difference is that "redo/undo support" is just for convenience
but "CJK/bidi/Indic/combining" is mandatory for these people.  However,
my proposal gave *less* score to CJK/bidi/Indic/combining (10) than
"redo/undo" (20).  My proposal was so modest!  Why do you want to
refuse even such a modest proposal?

> > It is obvious my idea improves usability for non-European-language-
> > speakers.  Also, it is completely Debian's (not upstream's) problem
> > and it is easy to achieve my idea.  On the other hand, you didn't
> > explain a demerit of my idea which is large enough to compensate the
> > merit.  Could you please explain?  Or, do you have any alternative
> > proposal?
> English is the de facto language.  Yes, support for other languages is a
> worthy goal, but that should be achieved by reasonable methods - not pushing
> software packages just because they are multilingual.  You want a
> multi-lingual text editor?  Choose one out of the many packages available. 
> Don't want to?  Get someone to choose the appropriate one, and make it part
> of a task package.

I am afraid that you might be misunderstanding.  Multilingual softwares
can also support English and other European languages.  These softwares
never give any disadvantage to European people.

Please read my previous mail.  I don't want to be bothered by the
need to choose text editors, text viewers, web browsers, terminal
emulators, mp3 players (which display title of songs), window managers,
word processors, and so on so on, in order only to use my mother
tongue.  Such work needs experts' knowledge, because the user has
to know which text editors are multilingual, which text viewers are
multilingual, which web browsers are multilingual, and so on.  Thus
I wrote I had to buy books which cost about 100 dollars in total.
My motivation is to reduce this "non-European tax" which most Linux/BSD
users have to pay, just like "Windows tax" which most PC users have
to pay.

Now there is an easy way (only one minute, not years) to reduce this
"non-European tax", because some of upstream developers have worked
on this problem and have released multilingual text editors.  The
only needed work is to choose them by giving higher priority value.

Tomohiro KUBOTA <kubota@debian.org>
"Introduction to I18N"  http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/intro-i18n/

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