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Re: [Fwd: [RFC] Making NM 'by recommendation']


I don't claim to be an expert on the New Maintainer process, having recently entered
it myself, but I do have a somewhat unique view on how it works for someone new. Myself,
I started working on distributions with Stampede, back when it was still aiming to
accomplish something. As the team in Stampede went off into space (I mean that as
close to literally as you can imagine) I realized that my input was not appreciated,
or used, and this was in a team of maybe 12-15 developers.

Martin, the so-called "elitist" below, has been my AM, and he's been extremely helpful.
While I had packaged a number of applications before hand, and I had spent a substantial
amount of time reading the literature on the site, he was patient with him, as I aimed
to make my work 100% Lintian-compliant :) Myself, I have many goals for Debian, I'd like
to work with people on a security audit of the distro from top to bottom, I'd like to
work on a system to allow someone to build the entire distro from source, (like apt-get source <pack> -b, but
with dependencies, etc.) 

However, for me, maintaining packages was the first step, and working with an AM to
get this stuff done, and working was my first priority. I think the NM process is
quite good as it is, and yes, there are many people who don't take things seriously. 
But that's true of any job, volunteer or otherwise. In my day job, I run an application
development department at a large hosting company. In my time, I've placed calls
offering jobs, and never recieved a follow up. This is how people are.

I don't think we need to change the process, because, in spite of a few people who have
seemingly soured most established developers, a lot of us take this really seriously.
We work hard at it, and we want to make a difference, and be part of something important.

To me, Debian is the closest thing to a perfect distribution. I want to take it that
much closer.

Anyway, I apologize for this lengthy diatribe, but I want to make my feelings clear on
this. Ignore the jerks, and don't let them ruin it for the rest of us.



On Sun, Jan 28, 2001 at 11:20:07AM +1100, Glenn McGrath wrote:
> I think a few people on debian-devel might have comments on this.
> There is a faction of debian developers who are elitists and want to
> close the system to new developers (numerous attempts have bee nmade by
> diffferent methods)
> These sorts of arguments are devisive and counterproductive to debians
> goals, but i think this topic needs to satisfactorly be discussed and
> _concluded_. 
> I think elitism is the only threat to debians viability. If the elitists
> gain power their will no doubt be a manpower shortage as there will be a
> lack of "worthy" new maintainers to do the work that the elitists want
> to hand to other people.
> The only way i can think that debian can protect itself from this
> internal threat is through policy.
> Sorry if this is going to cause a big thread, but it needs to be
> concluded somehow, which i guess has to be through a dialog.
> Glenn
> The following comments are not from me.
> Resent-Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 05:04:39 +1100 (EST)
> X-Envelope-Sender: list@lists.debian.org
> X-Envelope-Sender: tbm@cyrius.com
> Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 18:05:14 +0000
> From: Martin Michlmayr <tbm@cyrius.com>
> To: debian-newmaint-admin@lists.debian.org
> Subject: [RFC] Making NM 'by recommendation'
> User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
> X-Loop: debian-newmaint-admin@lists.debian.org
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> Resent-From: debian-newmaint-discuss@lists.debian.org
> X-Mailing-List: <debian-newmaint-discuss@lists.debian.org> archive/latest/706
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> I have recently seen an increase in applicants who are unprepared or
> don't even respond to my initial or follow-up messages.  I have the
> strong suspicion that this is related to the fact that it's really
> easy to sign up for NM -- simply enter your name and e-mail address,
> and there you go!  You no longer have to think how serious you are
> about it and what you want to do for Debian.
> My proposal is this: You can no longer apply to become a Debian
> developer yourself, but instead you need an existing Debian developer
> to recommend you.  Nothing in the NM system changes except of the
> application itself.  The developer who recommends another person as a
> NM is not responsible for him or has to go through the NM process with
> him (the latter will still be done by an AM) -- so this recommendation
> is no report to the DAM, but simply the entry ticket to the NM
> process.
> How do you find someone to recommend you?  Easy, if you meet a
> developer for key signing you can ask him to recommend you, or if you
> are active on the Debian mailing lists or help out with boot-floppies
> or a Debian port, I'm sure someone is willing to recommond you.  Or,
> of course, a sponsor can do it.
> This change would guarantee or at least increase the chance that
> applicants
>   - have a signed GPG key
>   - have a sponsor
>   - have had contact with Debian before
>   - have seriously thought about joining Debian
> What do you think of this?  I would like to implement this sooner than
> later, so please share your comments.
> Finally, here are some statistics; these are the number of people who
> apply for NM each month.  Of course I don't know how much increase is
> due to the dropping waiting time for NM and the easy-to-use web
> interface, but...
>      28 2000-03
>      22 2000-04
>      43 2000-05
>      36 2000-06
>      41 2000-07
>      47 2000-08
>      49 2000-09
>      63 2000-10
>      86 2000-11
>      64 2000-12
>      46 2001-01 (this month is not over yet)
> -- 
> Martin Michlmayr
> tbm@cyrius.com
> --  
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"PUNK IS: a belief that this world is what we make of it, truth comes from our
understanding of the way things are, not from the blind adherence to 
prescriptions about the way things should be.  " - Greg Graffin

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