Re: long term goals of debian membership
On Mon, Dec 04, 2000 at 02:27:19AM -0700, John Galt wrote:
> On Sun, 3 Dec 2000, Ben Collins wrote:
> > > Debian is NOT making the most out the open source/free software
> > > developers fan base by a long way.
> > I get so sick of hearing this argument/troll. Making it easier for joe
> > blow to become a developer, when he might only submit one package, with
> > his "leet" script he developed in highschool for organizing mp3's, is not
> > going to make Debian better.
> How many packages did you have when you became a DD?
None. I'll admit, looking back, I should have been more active before
being allowed to become a maintainer. Honestly I was so big headed at the
time that I actually nominated my self for DPL after only being in the
project for 2 whole months. I was innexperienced, and unready for the
> > What will make Debian better is to have full-fledged developers who are
> > better than average.
> TRANSLATION: Collins got his sekrit decoder ring, now he wants to make it
> harder for others to do the same.
TRANSLATION: You're just jealous.
> > Those people who just want to do a few things in passing ("I started using
> > Debian and I want to help"), do not need an @debian.org email, nor an
> Nobody really needs an @debian.org email. It's just there so that there
> is a guaranteed email for a DD. It could be @hotmail.com for all it
If the person doesn't need an @debian.org address, and they don't need
access to Debian systems, then they don't need to be a developer. If all
they want to do is send patches, file bugs, or just maintaine one package
of a program they author, then they don't really need to be a Debian
> > account on our systems just to file bugs, provide patches, test and write
> > docs. Neither do really good coders who can only put in an few hours of
> > work every few months (e.g. Linus would not make a good Debian developer
> > because he cannot put in a decent amount of time just for Debian). Don't
> > get me wrong, I'm not trying to say developers need to work Debian as a
> Somehow, I doubt I could get you wrong. You say you deserve more status
> than Linus Torvalds for your contribtion to Debian. Who's next on your
> list, RMS?
I'm saying that people who put due time into Debian, deserve to be Debian
Developers. Those who cannot devote enough time, do not need to be. Sounds
like you just want to ramble on, let's get this overwith...next troll...
> > full-time job, but doing something atleast once a week is a must to stay
> > on top of policy and distribution specific things. Being a developer means
> > you need to stay "in the mix".
> So make it easy to become a DD and have a sunset criterion. Fail to
> notice a couple of approximately weekly messages on -devel, you get a
> warning, then dumped. Your objection is to those who become DDs and fail
> to discharge their duties: so make it easy to become a DD, impossible to
> become indispensable, and hard to stay a DD.
Eh? Do you realize how silly this sounds? Easy enough, setup procmail
filter to grab those weekly messages and script a reply. Actually, Jason
Gunthorpe's echelon project already handles this. That doesn't mean we
don't need to be more rigorous in our criteria to become a developer. It
just means he can track developers for activity (and track them naturally,
not with some crazy ping message :).
> > Those people who say "I can't do that. I shouldn't have to read
> > debian-devel just to be a developer", well I'm sorry, but I feel that our
> > developers do need to keep in touch to do their volunteer work properly,
> > else you are cheating Debian, it's users and your fellow developers.
> > Developers that just "get by" are probably taking a position that could be
> > better served by people who can put in the effort and time (you folks that
> > can't aren't bad, just that Debian is getting too big not to have
> > developers that can, and keep too many developers who can't).
> Big of you to let them off so easy. Could you be any more condescending
> to your peers?
Truth comes in many forms. Just because it offends someone, does not make
it incorrect and does not mean that it shouldn't be said.
/ Ben Collins -- ...on that fantastic voyage... -- Debian GNU/Linux \
` firstname.lastname@example.org -- email@example.com -- firstname.lastname@example.org '