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Re: changing flavor of the linux world? was: craig sanders

On 2000-11-15 06:12, Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote:
>An Thi-Nguyen Le <anle@ews.uiuc.edu> writes:
>> Welcome to the real world.  You get any group of people together,
>> there will always be the idiots, the antagonizers, the backstabbing,
>> the politics, etc etc etc.  And flamewars are, I believe, quite quite
>> ancient on all the lists/organizations/etc you mention.
>I can assure you that I've been in the real world my entire life.  (Is
>there some other world other than this one that I might have been on?)
>In all of it, from working for the FSF, to MIT, to being in four
>different universities, to any number of religious organizations, the
>kind of vitriol that Craig Sanders spews would be totally utterly
>unacceptible, such that he would be expelled in very short order.
>I've encountered plenty of idiots, antagonizers, backstabbers,
>politicians, etc.; I've been on Usenet since 1986; and Craig's degree
>of vitriolic abuse is actually far and above worse than anything I've
>seen even on talk.abortion on its worst days.
>I'm willing to deal with idiots, antagonizers, backstabbers,
>politicians, harsh language, and flamewars.  Craig's degree of abuse
>goes far beyond any of that.

I think that if we have a vote right now on who people would like to see 
kicked off this mailing list, then you would get more votes than Craig!

I have been involved in a number of mailing lists in which Craig has been a 
participant, before that we were on the same echo-mail areas in Fidonet.  
I've seen and been involved in discussions such as this one many times over 
the course of 10 years.  In fidonet days Craig was just one of many 
technically skilled people who didn't mind telling idiots to fuck off...

So far the discussions that I have witnessed have never resulted in the 
skilled person being kicked out (or anyone else).  Here are some of the 
results of such discussions that I have witnessed:

1a)  Whining loser goes to other lists.
1b)  Whining loser says that they will go to other lists but slinks back soon 
afterwards with a better attitude.
2)  Whining loser shuts up and learns (very rare).
3)  Whining loser just keeps starting the whining every few months and gets 
totally and utterly flamed by every smart person on the list - but still 
doesn't learn.
4)  Loser starts threatening people (including me) and gets cut off.

Item 4 was fortunate for the loser in question, he was also threatening to 
invade the home of a gun-loving man who was slightly more paranoid than most 
people (and who boasted about having shot at people in the past).  I expected 
him to get himself shot.

One thing that you really need to learn is that the Internet is run in an 
anarchistic fashion.  You can't force people to do what you want.  If people 
do things you dislike then you can filter out their email, use 
iptables/ipchains to block their IPs, and pretend that they don't exist.

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