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Re: RBL report..

On Thu, Mar 30, 2000 at 01:36:37AM +0200, Nils Jeppe wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Mar 2000, Craig Sanders wrote:
> > yep. the DUL lists dynamic (dialup) IPs, it doesn't list static IPs.
> > that's why it's called the MAPS Dialup User List.
> Well then I have to agree, DUL is bad, because it's near impossible
> to kill dial-in spammers, except to have their accounts revoked of
> course.

DUL is very effective in doing that. it prevents spammers from hiding
their activities from their ISP...which ensures that they will be caught
and their account nuked very promptly.

the ISP has a vested interest in taking an active role in preventing
spam - if they don't then they will be blacklisted by one of the RBLs
(e.g. MAPS RBL) for being a spamhaus.

that's the medium-term indirect effect of DUL...the immediately
beneficial direct effect is that spam from dialup users is blocked by
anyone who makes use of the DUL.

> Blocking the IPs is really stupid and ineffective and whoever thought
> of that bright idea should be given a very big Clue.

no, it's very effective and the people who thought of it have an
enormous clue.

what it does is prevent spammers from sending their junk directly...this
forces them to use their ISP's mail server, thus increasing the
effectiveness of the MAPS RBL because it forces the ISP to take
responsibility for their users' actions - it takes away their option to
bullshit and say "nothing to do with me, i only provide dialup service".

most users don't even have the option of sending their mail directly
because they are windows or mac dialup users and their mail client
insists on using a relay host. so DUL doesn't affect them at all.

the tiny percentage of unix users who have a real MTA can, and should,
use a legitimate mail relay (or uucp-over-tcp or smtp-over-ssh or one
of the many other alternatives). these are also the people who are
technically skilled enough to do so - and if they are not skilled enough
then they should not be running a mail server on the open internet
anyway...novice mail admins are the bane of real mail admins everywhere,
their fuckups cause problems all over the net (not the least of which
is that novice mail admins often run open relays through ignorance or
indifference to the spam problem)

> This however also means it's different enough from ORBS that I completely
> fail to see how people can throw them in together.

you are right, DUL & ORBS are quite different services. only joseph is
enough of a moron to equate the two.


craig sanders

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