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Re: How not to be a nice person (Was: Re: Packages should not Conflict on the basis of duplicate functionality)

On Sat, Oct 02, 1999 at 12:46:46PM +1000, Craig Sanders wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 01, 1999 at 09:06:39PM -0500, The Doctor What wrote:
> > I took care in my message above to remove anything offensive towards
> > Craig.  Unfortunately Craig didn't do the same.
> garbage.  you went out of your way to be offensive.  to quote the opening
> line of your message:
> 	"Excuse me.  I work for TurboLinux."
> the implication here is that you know what you are talking about because
> you work for a "real" (i.e. commercial) linux distribution. 
> anyone should be able to guess that that particular attitude is not
> going to go down well in debian-devel. it's akin to saying that
> proprietary software is better because the programmers get paid to write
> it (and, by logical extension, that free software authors are just
> amateur bumblers).
> i find posturing based on your employer to be particularly annoying -
> it's a blatant attempt to cash in on borrowed status. it doesn't work
> that way here, it's not who you work for that's important, it's what
> you've done.

The idea was not to say that "since I work for *a company* I'm an
authority".  My point was that I work in the "real world" and have a
counter example.  Perhaps that should have been phrased:
"As I work in the 'real world', at TurboLinux in fact, I consider my self
as at least a counter-example.  We make it an EXPLICIT...."

Full Quote:
On Thu, Sep 30, 1999 at 08:05:32AM +1000, Craig Sanders wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 29, 1999 at 06:38:55AM -0400, Michael Stone wrote:
> > The fantasy is over--WELCOME TO REAL LIFE! It turns out that some
> > people install Linux without preexisting knowledge of how to securely
> > administer a Unix machine.
> sorry, it's you who needs to wake up to the real world.

Excuse me.  I work for TurboLinux.  We make it an EXPLICIT policy to
disable all daemons, for Workstation and Server products.  We also provide
a tool to manage these (turboservices and turbonetcfg).

I used to work for Tandem Computers, Tandem Computers had a similar policy

While Mr. Stone is being a little extreme, this is the real world.
This is a security issue.  More than that it is a matter of choice.

Please note that I don't say anywhere in the letter that you do not live in
the real world. I also don't say that you can't understand the obvious or
imploy any other methods to insult your intellegence.  In fact, I try
hard not to put you down at all, though I must have failed.

You on the other hand show no thought for anyone else.

Quotes (out of context, but I think they speak for them selves):
"i don't give a damn who you work for."
"well, bully for you.  i guess that must make you so proud."
"now what is so fucking difficult to understand about that?"
"you must be some kind of genius to figure that out all by yourself."
"i guess you aren't such a genius after all."
"it is especially tedious when some pompous cretin just spews out
trivialities based on some misunderstanding of the thread which is
explicable only by you not having read it."

And finally, just to make sure we're all clear on the matter
"no regards, craig"

Note that those are verbatum and all are full sentences.  I did not clip
short any sentences.

> > It is my hope that Craig Sanders reads this and thinks about what he
> > has done and why.
> very little of what i write is done without review and consideration of
> the effect of my words. i am a very deliberate writer. i presume that
> others are just as deliberate. if they're not, then they need to learn
> more caution and control over the language they use.

I'll take that at face value, and ignore yet another jib at me.

My last sentence was not to say that you write without review or
consideration of your words.  I wanted you to know I was hurt.  I thought
that if you were even slightly . . . empethetic, sympathetic, "human" . . .
that you'd reconsider, or at least see that stabbing at people isn't

But no, I see that isn't so.  I'm sorry.  I generally like people, work
hard to help even people who piss me off.  I try to understand people.  I
work to try to see why conflicts arise.  I try to reach a consenses.

But that's where we differ, isn't it?

	Christian Holtje

"If only you'd listened to me, I could have saved you from all that yukkiness."
		--Kryten (Red Dwarf)
The Doctor What: A Holtje Production             http://docwhat.gerf.org/
docwhat@gerf.org                    (finger docwhat@gerf.org for PGP key)

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