Re: request to kill nag messages
[DONT SEND ME A CC!]
Dale Scheetz <dwarf@polaris.net> wrote:
> On Wed, 19 May 1999, Christian Kurz wrote:
> > [You don't need to send me an extra Cc as I read the lists on which I
> > write. Thanks!]
> >
> > Dale Scheetz <dwarf@polaris.net> wrote:
> > > On Wed, 19 May 1999, Christian Kurz wrote:
> >
> > > > Branden Robinson <branden@ecn.purdue.edu> wrote:
> > > > > On Tue, May 18, 1999 at 03:32:20PM -0400, shaleh@clifford.livenet.net wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I'm not the only one to be annoyed at the nag messages that are sent out.
> > > > > > > Can the script please be disabled. There are better ways to find out bugs
> > > > > > > you have open. Long-standing bugs are likely to be less important than
> > > > > > > recent bugs too.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I would rather see the old bugs closed. An old bug is still a bug.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Don't like the messages, help close the bugs.
> > > >
> > > > > Wrong. Brian White is no longer the release manager, so he has no special
> > > > > privilege to send mails like this.
> > > >
> > > > Oh, does somebody need a special privilege to tell us which general bugs
> > > > are too old and need to be resolved? I don't think so.
> >
> > > No one needs to take on that job, as the BTS already reports all open bugs
> > > twice a week to every developer.
> >
> > Are you sure? I don't know that this is done by the BTS and have never
> > heard about this?
> Here is a sample of the beggining of what I normally get on Tuesdays:
> ---------------------------------begin paste---------------------
> Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 16:29:46 -0500
> From: Debian Bug Tracking System <owner@bugs.debian.org>
> To: debian-bugs-reports@lists.debian.org
> Subject: Unanswered problem reports by maintainer and package
> Resent-Date: 4 May 1999 21:30:06 -0000
> Resent-From: debian-bugs-reports@lists.debian.org
> Resent-cc: recipient list not shown: ;
> The following problem reports have not yet been marked as `taken up' by a
> message to done@bugs.debian.org or or `forwarded' by a
> message to forwarded@bugs.debian.org.
> -------------------------------end paste----------------------
> Note that this is a subscription list, so you must request placement on
> this "automated" report generator.
Hm, this looks for me like you use a cronjob to fetch your bugreports.
Or where is this described?
> On Friday the report is ordered differently, and can be grepped for your
> name to separate out your own bugs from all the rest.
Hm, sound interesting.
> You can also request limited reports on your own. Send the word help in
> the body of a message to request@bugs.debian.org and you will get a list
> of all the commands that the request server responds to. Among them are
> requests for indexes by package, or by maintainer. You can then take these
> indexes and request the actual bug report itself.
Oh so you need to set this up on your own? There's only one point which
I'm missing: How many maintainers use this? Is this used by nearly every
maintainer or only some? I think we need a mechanismen, which is
configurable, which automatically tells you after some time which bugs
are open and need to be closed. So you are automatically subsribed to
these messages, but you can stop it if you want.
> > > If this was simply a report to the list, once in a while, like the
> > > "critical bugs that need to be fixed" list, there would be no problem.
> > > Instead this mail is generated automatically and sent to every developer
> > > with an open bug report over a certain age.
> >
> > Well what is the problem with this? I don't see any offence in getting a
> > message that says that I (the maintainer) has still open bug over a
> > certain age. I think this is a good reminder for the maintainers as you
> The problem is that I can not request that the messages stop, like I can
> with this list, and the other BTS lists. Even aggressive, and angry
> requests have met with rejection. This is, by definition, unwanted spam.
So why don't we contact Brian and ask him about making this
configurable? Has anyone contacted him yet about this? If not, I will
write him a mail at the weekend.
> > may forget to fix bugs. Take a look at the ppp-package and how many open
> > bugs there have been. The maintainer hadn't fixed them and so I helped
> > him. (Sorry Phil, but this is a good example and No, I don't want to
> > praise me with this). Or have you taken a look at the list on
> > http://master.debian.org/~ajt/bugsbyage.txt? Have you seen how many open
> > old bugs we got? How do you think we get this fixed without reminding
> > the developers of their open bugs?
> How do the nag messages to Phil help you know which of his bugs are in
> need of repair.
I meant that this messages are good for a maintainer who had so many
open bugs to see which bugs he need to fix and maybe ask others to help
him. It was not about me.
> Your idea that mainainers "forget" to fix a bug is simply FUD. Nobody
> forgets a bug, they either don't have the time to figure out what is
> wrong, or for what ever reason cannot put the manpower into solving the
> problem. Under these conditions a NMU is very reasonable. I never turn
> down such help, but what does this have to do with the nags?
Oh, aren't you a human being who can forget things? And youy PC with all
informationen about your bugs has never been crashed so you need to
reinstall it and check again which bugs are open? OK, then you are good,
but I don't think that this is normal. And if you don't have the time to
figure out a problem or you need more manpower, then why don't you
contact other maintainers, like QA-Team, and ask them for help?
> You seem to have missed the point that, although some of the nags only go
> to a mailing list, each maintainer also recieves his very own copy of the
> nags for his packages. Until I complained loudly to Brian about not being
[...]
> can not be stopped all together makes them nothing but spam.
So you contacted Brian about this? What does he say about making it
configurable and letting the maintainers decide if they want this report
or not?
> > > > > This is no different from some "helpful" developer spamming people who,
> > > > > say, have had bugs open for over a year. Such people have (rightly) come
> > > > > under fire in the past.
> > > >
> > > > And what do you propose should be done with bugs that are so old? Still
> > > > let them stay open and look somewhere else? No, that isn't a solution.
> > > > The solution is to contact the developer and ask them about the bugs and
> > > > try to track the problem down and fix the bug. This has nothing do to
> > > > with spamming instead these are person, which are interested in
> > > > improving th quality of the distribution.
> > > >
> > > This is not a "person" asking a developer to fix a bug. This is an
> > > automated system that spits out messages with NO content of use to the
> > > developer, and adds nothing but bulk to the already functional system.
> >
> > Where has the message no content? It tells you which bugs are very old
> Telling me that there is an oustanding bug number 1234456 may have some
> information content for the BTS database, but it has absolutely no meaning
> until I track down the actual report. If these nags contained a patch, or
> some other information relevant to the bug report there would be useful
> information provided and I would probably not complain as loudly.
So a solution would be either making it configurable, so you can decide
if you want to get these message or including the messages in the BTS
about the Bugs? Is this right or what do you mean?
> > > You aren't really suggesting that any "well meaning" person is correct to
> > > set up an automated system for notifying developers about <place your
> > > important issue here>, then you should not complain when some dodo sends
> > > you, and the list, critical information about how to get rich quick. He is
> > > only trying to be informative...
> >
> > Well, I don't like spam as it has nothing to do with my work or my
> > hobby. But these messages are there for informing me, that I have open
> > bugs and that I need to fix them. So it's a reminder for me as
> > developer. Or how should we remind developer of their old bugs? Go by
> > hand through the BTS and sort them out? Are you sure that every
> > developer knows which open bugs he has and how old they are? I'm not and
> > since the messages are not send every day or every week or every month
> > but instead after a certain amount of time, more than 4 months, I don't
> > treat them like spam.
> If the messages inform you, then you should keep getting them. I should
> also have the right to demand that they stop comming to my mail box.
Right and take a look at the above solution.
> The question is not "how should we remind developer of their old bugs".
> Any developer can obtain that information on request from the BTS. The
> question is: "Does any one developer have the right to force others to
> accept nasty grams from an automated process, just because he doesn't
> think that developer is acting in a responsible fashion.
No but are you sure that this is not the question? Then please explain
why we still have so many open old bugs and they aren't tracked down and
fixed. And if it's only a problem of manpower, why don't the maintainers
ask for help?
Cheers
Christian
--
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* Christian Kurz Debian Developer *
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