Re: Caldera installation - something Debian should learn
First, sorry for the late reply.
Quoting R Garth Wood <rgwood@peace.netnation.com>:
> On Thu, 22 Apr 1999, Havoc Pennington wrote:
>
> >
> > On Thu, 22 Apr 1999, R Garth Wood wrote:
> > > I have read it. Keeping data in a text file that needs to be parsed
> > > is an antiquated notion that needs to be eliminated. The information
> > > contructs are correct, however.
> > >
> >
> > Wichert's proposal has pluggable backends for storing the data (LDAP,
> dbm,
> > text file, whatever you want).
>
> Our does as well but we are only implementing one of those above.
> If someone wants to implement the others more power to ya.
Why just one? Debian already has multiple installation methods (all
dselect methods including apt), multiple interfaces (dselect, dftp,
gnome-apt and even apt-get if you don't care to include it here),
multiple mailer, etc. We even the only one to "support" both the rc.d
scheme and rc files scheme. So why we would only implements one method?
>
> > The reason I mentioned it is that you expressed your hope that Debian
> > would adopt your changes. This is unlikely to happen unless you work with
> > the existing Debian effort to develop a solution that everyone can be
>
> In my experience there does not exist a solution that satisfies everyone.
> The solution that ppl use is usually the one that gets implemented and
> is not unbelievably bad(ie windows). Our solution is good and it will be
> implemented.
>
He talked mostly about your solution being adopt by debian upstream.
Sure you can implement any methods you want. He just warns you about the
fact that a lot have to be done to please everyone so it can be of
standard priority in Debian. It's usually a point companies care about.
> > happy with. That's just the free software way... I'd hate to see you do a
>
> I think the one thing free software needs is leadership. Linus gives
> the kernel strewardship, there's strong leadership in gnome, etc
> (pick a successfull free software project). *BSD OTOH suffers from
> fractionalisation. We hope to lead distributions in the right direction
> and sum our respective efforts.
I disagree with this. Good leadership are good. Strong, not always. People
here can remember all the f... with the departure of Bruce. Bruce was a
very good leader. But, one of his fault, IMHO, was to try to induces too
much the direction of Debian. That's lead to tension and finally is
departure. Currently, I really like Wichert's leadership: He's attentive
and conscious and know when to talk and when to let's discuss. Especially,
it's not here to make Debian serves his goals, but to help Debian got its
goals done, which is not an easy task seen Debian is a group, an entity
unable to clearly define what are its goal.
>
> > lot of work with upstream inclusion in mind, and then find out afterward
> > that it won't happen. (Though of course it might, if people are impressed
> > enough.)
>
> Hmm, it will be a lot of work initially but it's a one time thing.
>
> Also I hope debian uses our method because I like debian. But I think
> burocracy( I can't spell) will prevail.
That's not bureaucracy, it's democracy in the real sense since everyone
has the right to talk. It's important to catch this: weren't a Cathedral,
weren't a bazaar, we're an arena. We have to find the right solution to
please the maximum of peoples because we're based on volunteers. Debian
are really at risk of fractionalization elsewhere. If the policy are
followed up, it's because we mostly all agreed on it as the best solution
(or the best concession...).
I think Debian is one of the strongest exception to the benevolent dictator
model shown by Linux and pairs. Debian are really a group movement.
Something strong like the stream of the ocean. You have to be here for some
time to begin to feel it. Elsewhere, you only feel the waves around, which
risk to push you on the rocks of forgetful project. So, be careful, feel
free to surf around and sorry for my lyrism ;)
>
> +---------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
> | R Garth Wood | Making waves... |
> | Stormix Technologies Inc. | |
> | rgwood@stormix.com | |
>
>
BTW, BSD aren't so fractionalized. Less than Linux IMHO. Even if Linux has
a single kernel, it's less clear if you talking about the complete system.
And BSDes aren't failed projects, AFAIK.
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Fabien Ninoles Chevalier servant de la Dame Catherine des Rosiers
aka Corbeau aka le Veneur Debian GNU/Linux maintainer
E-mail: fab@tzone.org
WebPage: http://www.tzone.org/~fabien
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