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Re: Several questions to sgml-tools

On Thu, Oct 29, 1998 at 11:28:36PM +0100, Andreas Tille wrote:
> I had some experiences with HyperLatex.  I think this will be my friend
> instead of SGML, because I don't think that I have to write my own
> DTDs.


> OK, so far.  I ask my question other way around.  Content is a
> formula equation (not to complicated so that it could be expressed
> with ASCII).  I think an appropriate representation would be to
> center this formula on a single line.  Question: Which tag is the
> right one to tell my style that this is an equation.
> ... so far to the centering problem ;-).

Now you're talking :-)

I know the problem.  Linuxdoc (and HTML) is severely lacking.  But in
the case of linuxdoc, this is by design, I am told: the mathematics
features of the QWERTY DTD were deliberately left out.

You have several choices:
  1) Write your own DTD (this is much easier than writing your
     own .cls AFAIK)
  2) Use Docbook (if it really does have the ability to describe
     formulas) or some other complete existing DTD
  3) Use a form of TeX (such as HyperLaTeX)
  4) Something else.

> To be more precise:  I've read in the GTK list that DocBook is a tool
> which uses SGML to enable literate programming (more or less in
> the Knuthian sense).  

Hmm.  Never heard of that.  I was under the impression that DocBook is
a huge DTD with associated style sheets.  I didn't know it had tangle
and weave or equivalents.

> But HTML contains certain Tags for changing the font size and for instance
> you can include images too.  Thats well defined in the HTML standard.

Those tags (except the IMG) are deprecated in HTML 4.0.

> I thing speech synthesizers will have several problems to express
> Headings of sections too.

Not at all.  Do you have problems reading a well-written book aloud?

> Do they shout at the listener with screaming voice at <h1> headings
> and shout a little bit more moderate at <h2>s?

Do you scream the main title of a book when reading aloud?  How do you
read a subheading of a book aloud?

You emphasize them.  If necessary, you say, "Here starts another
section.  It is titled Foo."
> For instance, I want to print a warning that my software is Alpha.
> It wouldn't be good style for a typesetter to change the fontsize
> for that purpose but in a HTML document I consider this to be
> necessary for reasons I don't want to explain here.

Yes, HTML is broken.  It does not have a good set of logical markup
tags.  I know that all too well.

BTW: Why not mark the warning with <strong>, with possibly suggesting
a bigger font, with eg. <STRONG STYLE="font-size: bigger">?  Or better
yet, do the following

8<-- my-style.css
STRONG.warning { font-size: bigger }

8<-- my-page.html
<LINK HREF="my-style.css" TYPE="text/css" REL=stylesheet>
<STRONG CLASS=warning>This is alpha software</STRONG>

> Is there a tag <warning>?  --- No.

Like I said, HTML is severely lacking.  However, HTML 4.0 with CSS
gives you some ways to mimic a <warning> tag.  See above.

> and if the effort for writing the documentation exceeds the effort
> of programming I simply leave out the documentation or write
> a short README:
>     Look at the source. It is selfexplaining. Have fun.

The effort required for writing good documentation is huge regardless
of the tools.  Making up a customized DTD takes little in comparison -
and you can reuse the DTD in later projects.

> Of course, but if there are missing some logical concepts, how to
> get the right markup with a reasonable effort.

Get a better markup language :-)

> Can you explain in short words what jade is.  Does it contain styles
> in the sense I described above or is it an interpreter to work with
> selfwritten DTDs?

Package: jade
Version: 1.2.1-1
Priority: optional
Section: text
Maintainer: Adam P. Harris <aph@debian.org>
Depends: libc6 (>= 2.0.7u), libstdc++2.9, libsp1 (>= 1.2-1), sgml-base
Suggests: doc-base, sgml-data, sp
Architecture: i386
Filename: dists/unstable/main/binary-i386/text/jade_1.2.1-1.deb
Size: 260432
MD5sum: a87a61e4aefc0e39834841875e978f86
Description: James Clark's DSSSL Engine
 Jade is an implementation of the DSSSL style language.
 The jade engine is a useful tool (in conjunction with a DSSSL style
 sheet) for translating SGML documents into other formats.  Jade can
 currently generate SGML, RTF, and TeX.  In conjunction with the "jadetex"
 TeX style, it can generate quite nice output.
 Author:   James Clark <jjc@jclark.com>
 Homepage: http://www.jclark.com/jade/
installed-size: 774

Since SGML is one of the supported targets, also HTML can be generated.

Antti-Juhani Kaijanaho A7 <gaia@iki.fi> ** <URL:http://www.iki.fi/gaia/> **

                       The FAQ is your friend.
                            Trust the FAQ.

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