Re: Kaffe 1.0 beta debian package...
--On Thu, Jul 16, 1998 7:12 pm -0400 "Alex Yukhimets" <aqy6633@acf5.nyu.edu>
wrote:
>> As to whether or not Kaffe is usable for real work, it runs many real
>> pieces of code. The pizza compiler and ANTLR by themselves are
significant
>> programs and run good. It won't run 1.0.2 awt code at all.
>
> Could you please clarify this last statement?
> How come it doesn't run 1.0.2 awt code? Is it really true? JDK AWT classes
> for 1.1.x has both old and new API present. And javac-1.1 will produce a
> bytecode that happily runs on 1.0.2 JVM if only old API is used.
> (Reverse is also true). If what you are saying is true, then Kaffe does
> not provide full API of 1.1.x either - since old API is a part of a new
> one.
Not actually true. Since java compilers optimise non-virtual methods, there
are a few incompatibilities between 1.1 and 1.0.2 which mean that a program
compiled against one class library may not run as expected if run against
the other (even though both are only using the common subset of 1.0.2 APIs).
This is possibly a bug. Seems pretty stupid to optimise non-virtual
methods at compile time to me, in a system which masquerades as having
dynamic linkage.
>
>> I see no reason why we should not treat Kaffe as a real option for Java
>> development. The Transvirtual crew use Kaffe and Pizza for the
development
>> of the project itself, which is not insignificant. Furthermore, the Kaffe
>> system is the only DFSG compliant Java subsystem even vaugly ready for
>> prime time. As far as a real Debian distribution goes (Freeware) Kaffe
>> is the _only_ jvm we can offer. Who knows, Stallman might want to write
>> some GPL java code. We should give people like him the tools to do so.
>
> I am sorry, but Stallman can happily use JDK for that, as he uses
> "proprietarty" SunOS and its C compiler for developing GPL'd emacs.
> I am sorry, but put not working package into distribution to satisfy some
> free software fanatics is just not enough reason.
>
> The only way I could accept presence of Kaffe is when alternatives
> mechanism is used and JDK will have a higher priority then Kaffe.
>
> Compromise?
Huh?
Kaffe is the only VM (correct me if I'm wrong) which can actually be part of
debian, since it is the only free VM. So, the blackdown JDK port (and
similar ventures) will, as long as they are non-free, not be part of debian.
It may be appropriate to create a virtual package mechanism (for example,
jdk-complete) which is only provided by blackdown-JDK, until kaffe becomes
jdk-complete. But this would of course drag any packages which depended on
it into contrib. Packages which *will* run under kaffe could merely depend
on kaffe, and hence go into main.
Jules
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| Julian Bean | jmlb2@hermes.cam.ac.uk | TW9 2TF *UK* |
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