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Re: Debian Free Software (FSF) or Open Source? (was Re; non-cd...)

>>"Kevin" == Kevin Atkinson <kevina@clark.net> writes:

 Kevin> As you said below we are working from a different definition
 Kevin> of free. 

	Do you understand the situation now? As far as Debian is
	concerned, free is defined by the DFSG? When you talk to
	Debian to ask it to do something, you should understand
	exactly what we mean by free. 

 Kevin> Yes but rms is an extremist (as well as many people in the Debian
 Kevin> development team seam to be) and esr is much more of a pragmatist.  I
 Kevin> much more side with esr and think that rms needs (as well as some on the
 Kevin> Debian development team) need to lighten up.  I don't like extremist
 Kevin> although being an extremist does get your view herd.

	It is easy to label people and attempt to dismiss their
 argument. I am offended by your statements -- you can't just seem to
 understand that your view point is not shared by everyone else. You
 seem to take comfort in the fact that anyone who disagrees with you
 is an extremist. 

	Hobgoblins of small minds, I say. 

 Kevin> In order to work get your view herd one needs to relax your principles
 Kevin> just enough to work with the general public esr has done that, rms has
 Kevin> not.

	What if one is not really concerned with popularity or getting
 ones view heard or world domination or whatever? What if one is
 content with doing what one deems morally right? What if one is
 stubborn and holds to ones ideals? Oh, I see, we are
 extremists. Compromise your ideals, and conform, or else we label you

	The hell with that.

 Kevin> Truefully I don't see what the problem is with not being able to modify
 Kevin> the Qt library.  After all you can't modify your computers CPU...

	Yuo do not _have_ to see the problem. I do. The people who
 insist on open source/DFSG/GNU licences do. We are not asking you to
 modify your behaviour. Why do you want us to modify ours? 

 >> Then you are working from a different definition of "free" than we are.
 >> Feel free to make your own distribution (even using the Debian
 >> packaging system, if you want!) that matches -your- definition of
 >> "free".

 Kevin> Yes, I am and many many many people see that as a REAL problem
 Kevin> just like how KDE is working from a diffrent defination.

	Umm, what is the problem again? That your definition of free
 is not that of the free software community? There is an easy
 solution, you know. Just accept the DFSG as being the definition of
 free software. end pf problem. 

 Kevin> However unfortuanlly these diffrense keep Debian and GNOME away from KDE
 Kevin> and I think that is a real real shame.

	All KDE has to do is change and the differences melt
 away. (sorry, I couldn't resist that. I mean, you ask us to change,
 when the change can equallly well come from the other camp)
 Kevin> However I two think that Debian overall is better than Red
 Kevin> Hat.  What I want to see is it become more end user friendly.

	There we agree. 
 Kevin> To me the user interface is the most important selling point.

	Well, it is not really that important to me, but I can see it
 is important to people, and I am all for it. 

 Kevin> I want to have a Linux distribution this is as nice to use as Red Hat
 Kevin> but is developed by a community like Debian however with standards that
 Kevin> are not so high that the band using software like Qt the KDE is based
 Kevin> on. 

	As people have said before, if you want it badly enough, you
 can start it right now. You can even base it on top of Debian. You
 may even get a whole bunch of people to join you. 

 Kevin> ***
 Kevin> Why? I think KDE is a great project that might fade away and only
 Kevin> because it relayed on Qt and the freewhere community inability to accept
 Kevin> that.  Thus they ignore it.  Something is wrong here.
 Kevin> ****

	Yup. KDE should have changed, or better still, not gone with a
 non-free library. 

 "My past is my own." The Shadow (DC Comics)
Manoj Srivastava  <srivasta@acm.org> <http://www.datasync.com/%7Esrivasta/>
Key C7261095 fingerprint = CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05  CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E

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