Re: upstreams maintainer conflict, was: wget: remove outdated manual page
On Fri, 15 May 1998, Zed Pobre wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> On 15 May 1998, Hrvoje Niksic wrote:
>
> [ Many points on Texinfo vs SGML elided because I don't have sufficient
> technical knowledge to comment on them. ]
>
>
> >5) Finally, what does this buy us? Texinfo is not a perfect system,
> > but it works reasonably well. Moving to SGML should be accompanied
> > by a true gain in functionality.
>
> Well, the idea was for it to create a common format that could
> create both info format output and manpage format from a single
> source, so that people who like manpages can get the information they
> need there.
Or HTML or PostScript or <something else>
>
>
> > So far most of the complaints to Info in favor of man were related
> > to the lack of a good text-based standalone Info reader (the one
> > shipped by the FSF is horrible, and not only for the bindings.)
>
> Well, part of it is that when I'm scanning for data, I kind of
> like just hitting page-down until something catches my eye. This is
> something I can't do if I'm navigating multiple levels of links. I
> find myself going through section after section in info emacs20 trying
> to find things sometimes (of course here, the documentation is so
> massive, having a manpage wouldn't help, but maybe it helps show what
> I mean).
>
My personal problems with Info also have nothing to do with the reader. I
have been working with clunky software all my life. Learning a new set of
obnoxious keystrokes really isn't the problem.
My gripe with Info pages is that there is no fundamental structure
(outside the menu linking capabilities) and the reader has no expectations
of what might be found there. With a man page, I expect that if the
command has command line options that the man page will have a section
containing that information, and I know how to find it easily. While I
still have the expectation in an Info page that the command line options
will be discussed somewhere, it is not always clear where that is. (I have
always detested multi-level menuing systems because they provide the
capability of hiding crucial functionality at the bottom-most levels of
the menu system)
While man pages can be terse in the extreme at times, Info pages tend to
ramble all over the map. This usually requires that you read/scan through
large volumes of off target information to find the nugget of information
that you really need. Often that nugget is buried in a completely off
topic section of the Info pages.
Typically I come to the documentation to find out how to make something
work. I'm looking for specific answers to specific questions, and could
care less about the "tread" the author thought was important when the Info
page was written. (I'm not saying that that thread has no value, it just
tends to get in the way of the facts)
When I ask these questions in a man page, I find what I need fairly often.
When I ask them of an Info page, I often waste unreasonable amounts of
time to find little of use.
Don't get me wrong, I have used Info pages to good advantage, but it was
when those pages were organized in a fashion that made the information
accessible.
In addition I should also point out that I have read neither the man page,
nor the Info pages, under discusion here, and none of my comments should
be considered to apply to either.
>
> > Let's not confuse the two very different issues -- if it is the
> > reader that is broken, then the reader should be fixed. I've never
> > heard an Emacs users complain on Info.
>
> You just did :) I use Emacs for everything from writing email to
> word processing (via LaTeX/AucTeX). I still don't like info :) That
> may say more about my (lack of) skill with Emacs/Info than about the
> software itself, but the comment stands :)
>
There are potentially as many different issues as there are readers ;-)
Waiting is,
Dwarf
--
_-_-_-_-_- Author of "The Debian Linux User's Guide" _-_-_-_-_-_-
aka Dale Scheetz Phone: 1 (850) 656-9769
Flexible Software 11000 McCrackin Road
e-mail: dwarf@polaris.net Tallahassee, FL 32308
_-_-_-_-_-_- If you don't see what you want, just ask _-_-_-_-_-_-_-
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-request@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
Reply to: