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Re: Yet another Linux distribution! :-)



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I find this interesting....
(I notice someone else mentioned something too...I guess say it and others
with similar ideas come out of the woodwork)
I thought of basing a Distribution on Debian but...
a VERY TINY dist...
in fact the way I am thinkin gof...it wouldn't matter
what it was base don...
the basic idea I had was a Dist that you put ina  CD and a floppy
(standard install)...go through a few easy configs...
boom..instant X Terminal (litterally functionally an X Terminal...
would run completely off another system...the only local tools
would be used for upgrading to the newest version of the
X Server itself)
I was thinking Debian would make a good base for such a thing...
I dunno who would find it usefull but...
I know at school (WPI) they had rooms full of X Terminals and they
were very usefull...
and with this setup you could have another CHEAP PC running another
Log-in-able X interface
I think it woul dbe cool...but I don't see myself even starting on it for
another year (I don't know enough right now to do it...
and in 1 month I see some stuff happenin gin my personal life
which shoul dslow things down for a while)
- -Steve


On Fri, 1 May 1998, Jim Pick wrote:

> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I read with interest Bruce's post that he wants to work on another
> Linux distribution.  :-)
> 
> As long as we are talking "pie in the sky" stuff, I thought I'd let
> loose with the news that I am also developing an alternative Linux
> distribution.  I've sort of hinted about it on several of my webpages
> anyways.  I've had this idea for two years (at least), but it's just
> lately that I have actually started to work on it.
> 
> Here are my plans:
> 
>  - mid/late-1999 for first release (codename: Skaha)  - I'm not rushing
>    things.  :-)
> 
>  - it will be a  strict subset of Debian (and will include support for
>    upgrading to full Debian distribution via apt) - basically, Debian
>    is the "upstream" distribution, and this would be a "downstream
>    distribution"
> 
>  - dpkg based
> 
>  - probably using apt (perhaps with an additional front-end)
> 
>  - targetted towards desktop use only, no server apps, just a few games
> 
>  - minimal size - optimized for installation via 28.8k modem via FTP,
>    which will be the primary distribution mechanism (not CD).
> 
>  - slickest, easiest install in the business
> 
>  - self-hosting (it has everything needed to compile itself)
> 
>  - 100% open source / DFSG compliant (no non-free or contrib packages)
> 
>  - minimal set of install options:
> 
>      1) console only (with base application set)
> 
>      2) X11 user (primarily Gnome/Gtk based, I hope)
>  
>         Includes base application set, with:
> 
>             one window manager, one editor, one file manager,
>             one email/news program, several web browsers (with one
>             front end), one documentation system, several scripting
>             languages
> 
>         The following application sets can be chosen (preliminary):
> 
>             2a) graphics - Gimp, 3D apps
>             2b) publishing - TeX, SGML, etc.
>             2c) small business - GnuCash, Inventory, Taxes
>             2d) CAD/Robotics/Control Systems
> 
>      3) Developer - all tools and libraries required to make distribution
>                     self hosting.
> 
>  - sysadmin (and users) can use apt to install additional packages from
>    Debian distribution.
> 
>  - initial distribution will be i386 GNU/Linux, localized for Canada
>    and the USA.  Beyond that, I may attempt a Cygnus GNU/Win32 hosted
>    distribution, and maybe ever a GNU Hurd based one.
> 
>  - very strong technical direction.  As little duplication as possible in
>    terms of applications and libraries.  Everything will be document-centric,
>    and tutorial driven.  There will be a single document model.
> 
> 
> It will be another Linux distribution - but it will also be a strict
> subset of stuff inside Debian.  It will be promoted as such.
> 
> It will not have an "open" development model as Debian has.  Actually,
> initially, it will only have one developer (me).  If my consulting
> business improves, I might consider paying people to help me out with
> it.  I don't want any volunteers however, as that would lessen my
> control (anybody volunteering for Debian will be helping me out
> anyways).
> 
> Most of the work I do will be "open" though, because it will appear in
> Debian first.
> 
> The best way to think of this project of mine is basically as "Debian
> + editorial control".  Or you might think of it as a "Jim's hobby
> project" -- a customized "hot rod" GNU/Linux.
> 
> If it turns out well, I'll consider marketing it commercially (it
> should be marketable).  I will offer a consulting service that
> consists of customizing the distribution for clients with
> "stylesheets" and "themes".  I imagine that many local ISPs might want
> to offer their own customized version of Linux to their local small
> business clients and home users.
> 
> As it will be "Open Source", other more-commercial distributions such
> as Red Hat, Caldera and SuSe can steal stuff with no complaints from
> me.
> 
> The driving motivation for doing this isn't commercial though - it's
> basically a "soapbox" for me to express what I think should be in an
> OS, and what shouldn't.  My point of view is that most of the code
> that a user really needs has been written already - most of the work
> needed to build a really nice OS doesn't consist of writing more code
> (too many free software projects are going down this road).  Mostly,
> it's just a packaging/integration and documentation job to make the
> current codebase more digestable.  Debian already does a lot of this,
> but this will be focused in a way Debian can't be.
> 
> I plan to develop some documentation and live tutorial technology
> which will go far beyond what any free software app currently has.
> The whole system will be keyed off of the documentation - rather than
> leaving it as an afterthought.  Much of the work I'm going to put into
> preparing documents and metadata for LinuxHQ and dwww will also go
> into this new system.
> 
> The release schedule will vary dramatically from Debian's.  There will
> be stable and development branches.  There will be a new stable
> release approximately every two months (built from packages from the
> Debian unstable distribution, but tested).  Security bugs will be
> immediately put into the stable release.
> 
> Because there will only be a small set of packages to test, and a
> small closely-knit release team, rapid stable releases can be done.
> 
> For the most part, the development branch will just be a strict subset
> of the Debian unstable distribution.  Basically, it will be the same
> packages.  Due to the differing release schedule, there will probably
> need to be quite a few non-maintainer fixes - but these will all be
> pushed upstream to Debian.  Any packages tha I develop specifically
> for this distribution, I will also upload to Debian.
> 
> There will be a separate bug system, but most bugs will be fed
> "upstream" to the Debian bug system (with patches if they are easy
> fixes).  There will be relatively few bugs, because the packages
> released into stable will have been rigorously tested.  There will be
> separate mailing lists in addition to the Debian mailing lists.
> 
> Unlike Bruce's project - this project will have a symbiotic
> relationship with Debian.  If it works, it will attract new users to
> the Debian code base.  Also, the more successful Debian is, the more
> successful this subset of Debian will be.
> 
> I'd like to see more people announce that they want to develop their
> own "subset" Linux distributions based on Debian.  I'd be willing to
> collaborate on tools to make this easier.
> 
> The big problem with Bruce's idea of developing yet another volunteer
> distribution is that he will once again have no control over what the
> volunteers will be doing.  He'd be much better off using the same
> model I am going to use, which allows for near 100% editorial control,
> without giving up the benefits of having hundreds of developers
> feeding code in.  Of course, if he wants to base a distribution on rpm
> rather than dpkg (bad idea, IMHO), he'd be better off basing his work
> on the Stampede distribution, and organizing a recruiting campaign for
> them.
> 
> In summary, don't hold your breath for my "subset distribution" of
> Debian - it will take a long time to pull together.  But I strongly
> believe that this is a model Debian should encourage.
> 
> The Debian distribution "proper" may never have more market share than
> the commercial distributions such as Red Hat, Caldera, and SuSe.
> However, it is entirely possible that derivative subset distributions
> of Debian could dominate the Linux marketplace (especially given the
> technical superiority of Debian).
> 
> Cheers,
> 
>  - Jim
> 
> 

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