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RE: **Ready your Flame-Throwers**



I'll bite:

> From: Ian Keith Setford [mailto:ians@jove.acs.unt.edu]
> Sent: Thursday, April 30, 1998 3:09 PM
> To: debian-devel@lists.debian.org
> Subject: **Ready your Flame-Throwers**
>
>
>
> Yo-
>
> I am subscribed to devel although I am not a developer and since everyone
> else has had comments on Bruce's message so do I.
>
> It seems to me that the problem is difference in opinion on the direction
> of Debian.
>
> Unlike most of you (I presume) I have chosen to study business instead of
> computer science of some variety.  I have seen that a group of developers
> would like to see Debian as the most technically advanced distribution at
> a cost of time and user-friendliness.  On the other hand, we have those
> developers that have a vision of Debian being more user-friendly and less
> technical.


Gee, I studied physics and am working on an astro-physics degree.  Computers
just pay the bills and keep me off the streets.  Remember presume is almost
ass-u-me :-)


>
> I can presume that these same arguments were occurring in board rooms of
> the Big-3 auto-makers in the U.S. in the late 70's and early 80's.  The
> problem is that Debian is presuming what the "average" or "mainstream"
> computer user wants.  This is wrong.  The focus should be on the
> "customer" and therein lies Debian's problem.  Who are the developers
> "working" for?  Are you in it to make Debian for hackers, for business
> or for home use?  It is very hard if not impossible to achieve all of
> these.  Why do companies segment their products?  Why do they do selective
> marketing?  WHO IS DEBIAN FOR?  Does Sun make Solaris with the intent of
> home users running it? No.  They made their product based on what their
> customers wanted.  Microsoft tries this but their technical side is crap.
>

No doubt every product needs a focus.  The rift opened when Bruce attempted
to get the developers to see the value of marketing TO an audience.  The
developers are *volunteers* who do it as a hobby, not because a user wants
this or that.  For someone to market Debian, they would need to look at what
is there and find the marketable points of it.  Most of the developers would
not be adverse to *suggestions* from marketing, but are against marketing
driving the direction of the development.  Most consumer mass market things
are driven by marketing once the initial idea is built.  That's why many new
mini-vans have "connivance outlets" (cigarette lighter sockets) in the cargo
area.  There is no technical reason to have one there, but marketing said
it would sell more vans.

> Why not find out what computer users want?  Why don't you segment Debian
> into two divisions?  Like Microsoft does with it's products (except both
> Debians would retain superior technial ability).  A Debain for a newbie
> and a Debian for "power-users"?  I'm not sure how much work that would
> entail because I am not a developer.


See your comment on Micro$oft, and my comments above.


>
> I can tell you right now that no Linux distribution will conquer Microsoft
> or anyone else if they can not market themselves and release when they say
> they will.  Being technically supreme will get you no where unless it is
> matched at least equally with ease in installation, visibility, customer
> support, and product reliability.

We are not out to conquer Micro$oft, or anyone else.  We are here to share
out talents with like minded individuals (and some not so like minded).
The fact that other people find it useful is a bonus.

> Debian, in it's current state, focuses on being technically superior with
> *excellent* support but lacks ease in installation and marketing.  (Note I
> said marketing, not marketability.)
>

Ok Mr. Business - create a marketing team and propose said marketing in such
a way as to not step on the sensitive toes of the developers.

> Debian needs to be easier to install and it needs visibility to those who
> would purchase Windows.
>

Why?  This is a world domination style goal.  Easier to install would be
nice,
and is being worked on from what I can tell.

> If Bruce wishes to make a more user-friendly distribution I wish he would
> do it under the guise of Debian.  Excuse the comparison but if Bruce's
> "Easy Debian" or whatever the name is could do for Debian what Window's 95
> did for Microsoft,all of  Debian would be *far* better off.

Bruce should do what Bruce thinks is right for Bruce.  He's a big boy and
can make decisions for himself.

> RedHat already has the ease in install and visibility so all they have to
> do is get their technical and support side better.

RedHat has the visibility because it is commercially produced for profit.
If Debian had the goal to be the number one Linux distribution in the
world - regardless of the competition, the first thing I would suggest
is a Debian point of purchase package to be made available through
computer stores and bookstores.

>
> The question is:  Who is Debian for and where do you see it one year from
> now? ..five years from now?

Sounds like Micro$oft's where do you want to go today.  I hope Debian will
continue to be a technically excellent distribution.  It will be a bonus if
the tools evolve to where a novice can setup a system as easily as plugging
in a toaster (I know people who screw that up too).

Pat


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