Re: **Ready your Flame-Throwers**
Unfoprtunatly I don't have a flame thrower...
I had a can of lysol and a lighter but I ran out of lighter fluid...so I guess
I will just have to reply in a civil manner :)
It was definitly a bit refreshing to read your post...definitly a differnt
Point of View than is usually seen on here.
Even though I think your method of assesment is flawed...everything is flawed
in some way or another (or as one song says "nothing is ever perfect, this is
just a test")
The problem is that Debian is not a company...it is a group of volunteers like
myself
I recently realized that a package which I liked was available and needed work
so I am trying to take it over
why? well I like the package for one. Also because well...
Linux gives me an alternative to microsoft and braindead completely
closed and secretive development platforms...
as such I want to give something back and help the community of linux users
....the same peopel who are the reason that it exists in the first place
I do it for myself..because I want the program and I use the program...
but if I only did it for myself...why would I care if it is available as a debian
package?
I think this is as much th eproblem as it is the good part :)
it allows for some very nice and technically superior packages..
sinc ethe people who do it do it becaus ethey want superior packages
(lets face it for a company that has to think about money and th enext version..
th emotivation i smarkedly differnet)
it reminds me of when I told a friend that I was becomming a package maintainer
he
said "now you will get all the flames" I asked why and he said "oh you know
its the wrong color, it doesn't look right...it should do this.."
(to which I said that it will be running as server process to which he replied
"oh great now it will NEVER be the right color" :) )
but you know...I would like to get feedback from other users
I like the idea of finding out what the people want and at leats taking that into
consideration
I mean sure we are technically superior...but is it really sacrificing technical
superiority
to add some aesthetics?
(or at least make it easier for users to change what it "looks like")
you know (ok...I know allot of you are going to get sick to the
stomac at this thought)
I have even thought of grabbing the redhat source for some toold like their
control-panel and porting some of those modules to debian
They would need ALOT of work (I like the front end but not how
they work the back end...)
but IMHO I think they could be made into a nice tool
my main concern of course would be doing the one thing redhat didn't...
making it so that the configs that the control panels make can be easily
documented
and understood and most importantly fall in line with how it woul dbe
done editing files by hand
(as redhat has it now it is almost impossible to figure out all of their scripts
and
weird undocumented config files)
when i say this BTW I am specifically thinking op the nwtwork
config...the userconfig should almost work fine "out of the box"
and others...well you get the idea
I for one would love to see debian more "pretty" and "user-friendy"
just so long as it doesn't sacrifice technical superiority to do it
and...I think that can be done...it wont happen overnight...but it can be done!
-Steve
Ian Keith Setford wrote:
> Yo-
>
> I am subscribed to devel although I am not a developer and since everyone
> else has had comments on Bruce's message so do I.
>
> It seems to me that the problem is difference in opinion on the direction
> of Debian.
>
> Unlike most of you (I presume) I have chosen to study business instead of
> computer science of some variety. I have seen that a group of developers
> would like to see Debian as the most technically advanced distribution at
> a cost of time and user-friendliness. On the other hand, we have those
> developers that have a vision of Debian being more user-friendly and less
> technical.
>
> I can presume that these same arguments were occuring in board rooms of
> the Big-3 auto-makers in the U.S. in the late 70's and early 80's. The
> problem is that Debian is presuming what the "average" or "mainstream"
> computer user wants. This is wrong. The focus should be on the
> "customer" and therein lies Debian's problem. Who are the developers
> "working" for? Are you in it to make Debian for hackers, for business
> or for home use? It is very hard if not impossible to achieve all of
> these. Why do companies segment their products? Why do they do selective
> marketing? WHO IS DEBIAN FOR? Does Sun make Solaris with the intent of
> home users running it? No. They made their product based on what their
> customers wanted. Microsoft tries this but their technical side is crap.
>
> Why not find out what computer users want? Why don't you segment Debian
> into two divisions? Like Microsoft does with it's products (except both
> Debians would retain superior technial ability). A Debain for a newbie
> and a Debian for "power-users"? I'm not sure how much work that would
> entail because I am not a developer.
>
> I can tell you right now that no Linux distribution will conquer Microsoft
> or anyone else if they can not market themselves and release when they say
> they will. Being technically supreme will get you no where unless it is
> matched at least equally with ease in installation, visibility, customer
> support, and product reliablilty.
> Debian, in it's current state, focuses on being technically superior with
> *excellent* support but lacks ease in installation and marketing. (Note I
> said marketing, not marketability.)
>
> Debian needs to be easier to install and it needs visibility to those who
> would purchase Windows.
>
> If Bruce wishes to make a more user-friendly distribution I wish he would
> do it under the guise of Debian. Excuse the comparison but if Bruce's
> "Easy Debian" or whatever the name is could do for Debian what Window's 95
> did for Microsoft,all of Debian would be *far* better off.
> RedHat already has the ease in install and visibility so all they have to
> do is get their technical and support side better.
>
> The question is: Who is Debian for and where do you see it one year from
> now? ..five years from now?
>
> -Ian
>
>
> _____________________________________________________________________
> Ian K. Setford ians@jove.acs.unt.edu
> H: 940.566.0461
> Pgr: 817.901.0255
>
> --
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--
I am back to nothing worthwhile of a SIG again
if you want my pgp key though check out:
http://www.gis.net/~sjc/pgp.asc
(BTW Thanx allot Noah for pointing out why putting my pgp key here was
a bad idea...now I hafta find a new funny quote or something for here)
--
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