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Re: /etc /usr/etc: solution?

On Sat, 5 Jul 1997, Vincent Renardias wrote:

> On Sat, 5 Jul 1997, Vadim Vygonets wrote:
> > On Sat, 5 Jul 1997, Vincent Renardias wrote:
> > 
> > > 
> > > On Sat, 5 Jul 1997, Vadim Vygonets wrote:
> > > 
> > > > On Fri, 4 Jul 1997, Yann Dirson wrote:
> > > > > Oops! I meant "FS-extension-based solution"... the one with /usr/etc
> > > > > as default directory associated to /etc
> > > > 
> > > > Good solution.  I think we must accept it (or vote this one against
> > > > the simple one, having conffile in /etc only) and put it in
> > > > debian-policy.
> > > 
> > > I strongly object! I want NO conffile outside of /etc !
> > 
> > Then you will move them back and delete them there.  But why do you
> > object?  I explained my point of view, now please explain yours.  BTW,
> > I proposed this because I'm a sysadmin, and I know that I really don't
> > want to copy conffiles into /etc every time I install a new program.
> So you want me to "move them back and delete them here" just because you 
> "really don't  want to copy conffiles into /etc every time you install a
> new program" ?!
> I also happen to be a sysadm. and the reason in the 1st place I considered
> moving from Slackware to an other distribution was the scatering of the
> conffiles (slackware have conffiles in /etc, /usr/lib, /var/lib, etc...)

Then tell me please how many computers taking /usr from remote machine
you have.  Now we have only one Debian box in the University, but I
pray every night we'll have more soon.  And we have several hundreds
of Unix boxen running BSDI, SunOS and IRIX taking /usr from far away,
so I know how they do it, and I don't want my boss think that Debian
Linux is brain-dead (although in some issues it is), because it took
half a year to Borik (who happens to work with me) to make him (boss)
finally let him (Borik) install Linux on one box.  And believe me, two
directories is not too much.  In other Unices, you have config files
floatin all around you, and to find them, you must RTFM -- manual
pages have the conffile location in them.

> I think having conffiles outside /etc:
> 1/ is not FSSTND/FHS compliant.

Read other posts.  We don't have another clean choice.

> 2/ is a feature interesting for very few people (not to many people use
> /usr NFS mounted, not to mention it's slow) 

Heh, Unix was designed for networks, Unix grew on networks.  I want
every Unix sysadmin to convert to Linux, because it has a cool kernel,
and every Linux sysadmin to convert to Debian, because of many
reasons.  But believe me, every sysadmin will hate Debian because it
doesn't deal properly with networking issues.  And I don't want Debian
to grow only in places where you have one machine (namely home).  I
want it to spread all around, and be at ISPs, Universities, companies
and other places which have large networks.  Mounted /usr is the
feature of Unix.  One installation of new program, smaller disks on
workstation.  And I won't say it's too slow mounted over 10 Mbit
Ethernet -- I worked many time with 10Mbit line and remote /usr, no
problem.  And before that, I worked on an X terminal over 10 Mbit.

> 3/ makes configuration backups a nighmare.

Two directories -- a nightmare?  Oh, really...

> 4/ I don't think it's wise/fair to ask our users to "move here and delete
> there" because a few people happen to use NFS /usr mounts.

Why moving and deleting, when you can leave it in /usr?  And what's
the problem?  You're poiting me to two directories as if I say we need
at least 20.  Two, man!  It's not too much.

> 	If you want to administrate a large number of machines, cfengine
> is the solution, moving config files around is not. 

It's not the solution, because on Unix, you must keep the root
partition as small as possible, if you want to carry the name Unix.


Vadim Vygonets * vadik@cs.huji.ac.il * vadik@debian.org * Unix admin
The fish doesn't think, because the fish knows...  everything.
	-- Arizona Dream

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