On 18.02.2014 01:49, Vincent Cheng wrote: > On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 3:34 AM, Markus Koschany <apo@gambaru.de> wrote: [...] >>> It is pointless to have it in main without the game engine in main >>> too. >> >> Could you elaborate on this statement please? What is your reasoning for >> keeping free and universal art assets in contrib? I think game art is >> not necessarily tied to one game. It is reusable. Free game art should >> always be promoted. Having free images and content in contrib that do >> not depend on packages in contrib or non-free is wrong. > > ...I'd also like to point out that Policy 2.2.2 states that: > > " > Examples of packages which would be included in contrib are: > > - free packages which require contrib, non-free packages or packages > which are not in our archive at all for compilation or execution, and > > - wrapper packages or other sorts of free accessories for non-free programs. > " > > The crux of your argument (correct me if I'm wrong) is that > sauerbraten-wake6 serves its purpose primarily as a piece of DFSG-free > game art/assets that can (but is not currently) be used by other > DFSG-compliant games/game engines, i.e. it's nothing more than a loose > collection of DFSG-free generic game assets. However, I see > sauerbraten-wake6 as a work of art that is (currently) only usable > with sauerbraten's game engine, in which case I'd argue that > sauerbraten-wake6 "requires [a package] in contrib...for compilation > or execution" (i.e. the first point mentioned in the above quote). And here I beg to differ. The crux of your argument is that you restrict the usage of sauerbraten-wake6 and game assets in general to one purpose and create the paradoxical situation where you have free assets and a free engine and all of them cannot be promoted because they are not part of Debian. Even if sauerbraten-wake6 contained hundreds of free images and maps, it wouldn't qualify for main either. As I have outlined before the package consists of game assets that could be used in different projects, under different circumstances and for different purposes. The images can be edited and opened by Gimp, the text files also in Vim. I could also add the *.obj and *.mtl files of wake6.ogz to this package which would allow you to import, edit and modify the map files with Blender or your text editor of choice. So this package does not really need a package in contrib or non-free for compilation and neither for execution. It _can_ be interpreted by the sauerbraten engine, but that's only one conceivable purpose of it. Imagine all the other use cases such as educational ones, learning to modify images with image manipulation tools and especially teaching people how to create free content for the Sauerbraten game. If you are really concerned about the nasty Saubraten community and their habits to release art assets under non-free licenses, then it is, in my opinion, imperative to provide solution possibilities to people who are willing to work on the subject of creating free content. Those people need encouragement and a perspective. If it is clear right from the start, that their work cannot be included in Debian, you won't find anybody who really intends to solve this issue. > I admit that I don't see the point of moving sauerbraten-wake6 from > contrib to main. Users who install it will very likely also install > sauerbraten to actually use the game data packaged in sauerbraten, so > they must enable contrib anyways. I would probably take a different > stance if there was actually some other game engine packaged in main > that uses the data in sauerbraten-wake6, but this is presently not the > case, so this feels like nothing more than an academic exercise. This paragraph illustrates how contradictory the current separation between the main and contrib sections is. Basically what you have written above is: main or contrib that's all the same. I don't think this is an academic exercise but a fundamental problem. What is the purpose of contrib anyway, if packages can only be moved in one direction? Why should we care at all? I always thought of contrib as the place where Debian ships free software that simply needs someone who works on a problem to make a package completely independent from non-free software. But apparently the message seems to be that the affiliation to main or contrib doesn't really matter and even if a package has different use cases, if in doubt better keep it in contrib. At least this is not controversial and it makes your life a lot easier. I think that's wrong. I feel we lose something if we insist on keeping sauerbraten-wake6 in contrib. That is credibility. Regards, Markus
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