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Re: "desktop-base" for wheezy+1

Am 12.07.2012 um 10:18 schrieb Paul Tagliamonte:
>> Am 12.07.2012 um 01:15 schrieb Paul Tagliamonte:
>>> Joe-bob works for Foocorp, which uses "nihde" as their DE. "nihde" can
>>> run apps as "widgits", and the theme they wrote for their installs
>>> happens to have a theme that uses "xblerg". The theme is so brilliant
>>> they want to share it with all Debian users, so they upload it.
>>> Now, the situation:
>>> Does theme-foocorp depend on xblerg? Remember, by default Debian doesn't
>>> use nihde, so we don't need it for most cases. If we assure xblerg
>>> (which happens to be 1.4 gigs of glorious userspace) is on the system in
>>> the one big megapackage, it screws a lot of installs with a huge useless
>>> app. If we don't it causes breakage.
>>> With my solution, the answer is clear. As is, there is no good answer.
>> You are talking about depends. But I
> No, I'm talking about Joe-bob and Foocorp. I don't write emails for my
> health, stick with how I framed the problem.

I don't want to get into an argument. Or waste your (and my) time. 
I just wanted to connect the problems and the plan you are talking about to desktop-base.

> Strawman! This is not joebob or nihde.

So here we go: If we have a single theme-package "theme-foocorp" that is ONLY useful if the widget "xblerg" is installed (and thus also the Desktop Environment "nihde") the maintainers of "theme-foocorp" make a depend to "xblerg". 

As we are talking about single theme packages this is perfectly OK and as only people install that theme, who want to use it with "xblerg" and "nihde", they will be happy with the depend (if they don't have "xblerg" and nihde" already on their systems anyway). Everybody else isn't affected, as they will NOT install "theme-foocorp".

So where's the problem?

Or are you talking about "theme-foocorp" being a part of a somehow future desktop-base? Here is what IMHO happens then:

"desktop-base" ships themes for many environments, without depending on them. So if Joe-bob wishes to integrate "theme-foocorp" into desktop-base, his upload may be accepted by you. But desktop-base wouldn't make a depend on "xblerg". Instead "theme-foocorp" will be seen only by users who already chose to install "nihde" and "xblerg" on their system. All others will get the default theme for their DE. Even "nihde" users will NOT see "theme-foocorp" unless they haven't already installed the 1.4 gigs of "xblerg".

That also seems perfectly OK to me. desktop-base is the cart, not the horse. It provides artwork for the default install of Debian. And for those environments the user chose to install additionally. It doesn't install these environments ("nihde") by itself.

So where is the problem you need all these many packages for?

> No need to try to respond just to respond. If you can't
> answer the questionn, let it hang.

I tried to answer. :-) As I understand it, the plymouth and the svg "bug" (613040, 625222 and 680583) gave you the idea that artwork themes should be able to install all the packages needed to show whatever artwork artists had the idea to include ("theme-foocorp" needs to depend on "xblerg"). As I explained in my previous mail, the two bugs seem to me no valid symptoms of a real problem, so the problem may not exist. 

In this mail you have two solutions for the problem in your story: Either use single artwork packages WITH depends - or stick with a base theme and let the user only see what he needs (already has installed). The last thing is what we have right now. Either way I don't yet fully understand WHY you need the fractured setup with the metapackages. 

I am not completely against it. Perhaps it's better than what we have. I am just trying to understand. 

I understand that at the time debian is installed, such packages would take care that only the artwork is installed that is needed. That's an improvement over today when we have a plymouth theme even if plymouth isn't installed. On the other hand, it's just artwork, doesn't need so much space. 

In your new world, how does a user switch to a new system-wide theme? Does he have to manually select "theme-moreblue-grub", "theme-moreblue-gdm", "theme-moreblue-gnome" etc.? Is there a metapackage for all of them? If there is, will it check what DE and Login-Managers and bootmanagers and splash screens are installed? 

Will all these external packages be willing to add a recommend?

Sorry, just saw your new mail.

> A single binary package may provide more then one package. This would
> let a single theme "define" what themes it provides, as well as satisfy
> my crazy.
> This would let us break something out if we needed to, but for saneish
> setups keep it all in one package. In joebob's case, we create
> theme-foocorp-nihdm and provide it there, along with it's *correct*
> deps.

So theme-foocorp-nihdm can be also be a single package. Hmm. Sounds interesting.

> "Join me, and together, we can rule the galaxy as father and son!"

Noooooo :-)

> OK, let's resolve this :)



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