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Bug#727708: multiple init systems - formal resolution proposal

On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 9:52 AM, Josselin Mouette <joss@debian.org> wrote:
> Le mardi 28 janvier 2014 à 08:16 +0100, Ansgar Burchardt a écrit :
>> No. My question isn't about logind, but about using a user systemd
>> session to supervise processes started by the session. IIRC both GNOME
>> and KDE were mentioned to consider this feature.
> I wouldn't worry much about such features, at least not for jessie. They
> will most likely be fallbacks, and in the unlikely case they are at
> build time, we could always put the two binaries in the same package
> with dynamic detection, thus working around this requirement.

Fallback is intended, so for near future you'd be ok. Longer term, I
expect almost no maintenance to occur from GNOME side, so be prepared
to handle the maintenance if nobody else does. Though I guess it'll be
like ConsoleKit case: I'm warning, but nothing happens :-(

> The real problem is logind. The requirement proposed by Ian is not
> implementable:
> 1390155797.29928.17.camel@tomoe">http://lists.debian.org/1390155797.29928.17.camel@tomoe

IMO other init systems should provide the interfaces which GNOME
requires. It is not up to GNOME to provide these. That or takeup
ConsoleKit maintenance (or logind alternative), but despite warning
about and requesting this in January 2012, not much has happened.

So I think the proposal should be turned around: Init systems should
ensure that they meet the changing requirements of the rest of the
stack. Aside from this we're open to discuss things with
distributions. For logind case I approached various times (obviously
not knowing Debian) and we warned and requested feedback. Initially
via our distributor-list, but also reached out to debian-devel. Any
practical answer and/or discussion is very welcome. The lack of any
answer means we'll continue to do what we think is best.

To be clear: Any answer like "it should just work across init systems"
for me is not a practical answer as it ignores all the issues we're
facing with this. That said, we don't rely on systemd. If there's
functionality that we really want, need or makes our lives much
easier, then I don't see how you can demand us to do double or triple
work. The burden should be placed correctly, not with us.

I'm quite saddened by lack of response to e.g. ConsoleKit/logind btw,
it's been 2 years already!!

Olav (GNOME release team dude for the people who don't know)

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