Re: CTTE and Developer Buy-in [Re: Bug#727708: init system other points, and conclusion]
On Thu, 2014-01-02 at 12:37 +0000, Colin Watson wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 05:50:59PM -0800, Don Armstrong wrote:
> > On Wed, 01 Jan 2014, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
> > > and I think it'd be a shame if we ended up losing or demotivating a
> > > good bunch of good developers again.
> >
> > Pretty much every time the CTTE makes a ruling, someone is going to be
> > annoyed or demotivated. Easy, non-contentious decisions never make it to
> > us.
> >
> > If there are concrete ways we can be better at making sure that it's
> > clear developers concerns are being heard and taken into account which
> > we are not already doing, I'd certainly like to hear them.
>
> Is there any useful way we could take a reasonably quick non-binding
> straw poll of developers? Sort of an "if we voted a particular way, is
> it likely that we would be on the wrong side of developer opinion".
While i don't have a good answer for your question, i did trigger me to
have a look at popcon to see what that told me in terms of popularity of
systemd vs. upstart. Unfortunately systemd can be pulled in quite easily
via dependencies and having the package installed doesn't mean systemd
is PID 1. One can however look at the systemd-sysv package for a lower
limit of systemd as PID 1 usage. (Which is most likely a quite
pessimistic lower limit, given it's not the recommended way of enabling
systemd as PID 1)
With that said, looking at the numbers for upstart[0] and systemd[1]:
* Upstart, 71 installations (0.04%), 60 votes (0.04%)
* systemd-sysv, 313 installations (0.20%), 224 votes (0.15%)
for reference:
* systemd, 10295 installations (6.43%), 8082 votes (5.48%) .
Even if it's hard to really draw conclusions from popcon, i was
personally quite surprised by the number of installations of
systemd-sysv (again given they're really a lower limit) vs. the number
of installations of upstart. Looking purely at the numbers for wheezy
may be interesting as well, as i don't think anything "big" depended or
recommended systemd for wheezy.
0: http://qa.debian.org/popcon.php?package=upstart
1: http://qa.debian.org/popcon-graph.php?packages=systemd
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