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Re: Bug#682010: re celt and mumble referred to the TC

On Thursday, July 19, 2012 19:07:52, Ron wrote:
> Ok, so I've just had a long overdue catch-up with Thorvald, and we think
> we have a plan that really covers all the bases ...
> We can re-enable speex support in the client, which was only just recently
> dropped (so only the client currently in unstable is affected by that),
> and since all the clients well back in pre-history should support that
> just fine, we can jigger things so that it will be the baseline interop
> if celt is not present, and use the existing threshold setting on the
> servers to let people select the point at which the number of users with
> opus support triggers switching to that.
> Which means we basically get the best of all worlds, we have interop with
> existing old clients, we get to drop celt support and so don't have to
> worry about getting burned by it, and people will automatically switch to
> the wonders of opus (and get lower bandwidth and better quality) as soon
> as enough of the connected parties have support for it.

This sounds great.

> There's a few things that need testing, but we're reasonably confident
> this can fly, and meet all the concerns of almost everyone.
> There are only two small catches:
>  - catch 1.  He's about to fly out and will be afk for a week, so he
>    won't be able to look at this until he gets back.  (which is why
>    I'm writing this now instead of letting him do it)
>  - catch 2.  The version of murmur currently in testing is completely
>    broken again due to the zeroc-ice screwup.  That wouldn't have
>    happened if the -2 upload of mumble had transitioned as planned,
>    but well, you all know the story there ...

Let's just call it the results from a communication breakdown.  I appologize 
for my side of that.

> So ...   Chris, since you're currently the major objector, and opened
> this bug with the TC, this question is mainly for you ...

This sounds like a very good compromise to me, and I thank both you and 
Thorvald for the effort in coming up with it. .. And thanks for talking to me 

> What we'd like to do in the meantime, is let the mumble version from
> unstable transition to testing now.  That will:
>  - Unbreak the server for everyone, which currently won't work at all.

... And I can verify that this is the case, as I just attempted to upgrade the 
version of mumble-server I was running on a server, which results in an error 
message on every attempted startup:

/usr/sbin/murmurd: symbol lookup error: /usr/sbin/murmurd: undefined symbol: 

Whereby I upgraded to mumble-server from Sid, which works fine.  (Thank you 
for dealing with the zero-ice difficulties, and I'm glad that work will be put 
to good use.)

>  - Break the client for people using ancient servers, and who are
>    talking to people without opus support.  ie.  not everyone, but a
>    fair number of people who haven't yet moved, or who can't convince
>    their friends to move yet.  You know the deal there.

Minorly sucks but I see no reasonable alternative.

>  - Most importantly though: minimise the diff that -release need to
>    review when Thorvald gets back and we have a new upload to make
>    once again.
> We tossed up which way to go with this (the alternative being to not
> let it migrate and inflict the bigger diff on -release and broken
> server on everyone) - but this seems to be the lesser evil, since it
> will let people get some more testing miles on opus, and people who
> would really be put out by that can just put it on hold for a short
> time.
> Once Thorvald gets back and we re-add speex, this should all work again
> for everyone, and we don't have to kick it out of testing, don't have
> to embed a suspect lib, and shouldn't have to leave anyone feeling
> hard done by ...
> Does that sound ok for you?

Yes it does.  Best suggestion I've heard yet.

> If it does, I'll bump the severity of your bug back down to something
> not RC (but not close it yet, we'll let the speex enabling upload do
> that), and request the release team unblock it.  And if there is no
> further complaint to discuss, then I guess you can tell -ctte you
> have the pound of flesh you sought :)

I appreciate your humor.  ;-)
No objection to the plan.

> Otherwise ...  well, then I don't know what ...  you'll have to
> suggest a plan B all your own, because this is the best we have ...
> All Thorvald asked is that people stay calm, so he can actually worry
> about working on the code rather than being stressed by the drama :)
> I'll make this happen if I get your ACK that it works for you too.


Thanks very, very much.

I'll give the security researcher working to audit the celt 0.7.1 codec a 
heads up that Debian is planning to EOL celt altogether, and thank him very 
much for his offer of support.

  -- Chris

Chris Knadle
GPG Key: 4096R/0x1E759A726A9FDD74

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