Re: Timeline for official Debian cloud images for the Stretch release
Hi Richard,
here are quick answers, but I will then run out of time and I am not sure
to be able to continue the discussion on that pace in the next few days
(which may be a good thing).
Le Sat, Mar 26, 2016 at 08:48:22AM -0700, Richard Hartmann a écrit :
>
> all teams are well within their delegations. If the DPL had felt that
> to not be the case, I am sure he would have updated them accordingly
> or created a new one.
I will not second guess the wills of the DPL, and anyway, a new DPL will be
elected very soon. If you think that formal management is necessary (and I do
not), can you ask him for setting up a delegation ? If not, can the trademark
team refrain from nominating managers ?
> Our main concern is that we need a way to protect our users from
> unexpected behavior in a somewhat automated and scalable manner, and
> keep those results and their records out in the open.
The usual way is to report issues, open bugs on the BTS, and work on a
solution. Sorry, but here I see at worse fears, uncertainty and doubt, or at
best ambitions to have a more unified system, but no concrete problem or
complains. You are using a very heavy hammer, without having participating to
problem reporting and problem solving before on this mailing list. And
ambitions are great but somebody's ambitions should not become somebody else's
obligations.
> Your main concern seems to be that you will be forced to conform to an
> arbitrary rule-set enforced top-down.
My main concern is that what is being done is a strong departure from what I
felt is a core Debian value: the principle that the one who does should usually
be the one who decides.
> As a specific proposal in light of your concern, might I suggest you
> simply join the discussion about the test set?
Sure. Unless I am mistaken, it has not started, isn't it ?
There are also discussions that did not yet lead to a conclusion, in particular
on the use of cloud-init backports. I am not happy to see people comming out
of the blue and informing us that they self-appointed as decision makers on
issues that include whether we can use a backport or not. We have been doing
this for a while, and if people have a different opinion on what should be
done, the best way forward is to step in the maintainance of the cloud-init
package (in coordination with Ubuntu, which is our Upstream here), and work out
how to get Stable updates, etc.
To summarise it with a strong image, you come to a discussion with a gun, and
after aiming at peoples heads, you say "let's do some great work together". If
you are interested in the cloud images, can't you participate as a regular
developer, rather than as a person who has the power to pull out the plug from
other people's projects ? I feel that we are treated as potentially dangerous
contributors who need to be controlled to prevent some mess to happen and
damage Debian's name. This is highly demotivational.
Cheers,
--
Charles Plessy
Tsurumi, Kanagawa, Japan
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