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Re: Release announcement simplified Chinese translation update

Anthony Wong <ypwong@gmail.com> writes:

> 2009/2/17 Arne Goetje <arne@linux.org.tw>
>> Matt Kraai wrote:
>> > On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 11:58:20PM +0800, Arne Goetje wrote:
>> >> Matt Kraai wrote:
>> >>> We already appear to use a single source version for all three Chinese
>> >>> translations: Big5.  Whether it's possible to change to UTF-8 is for
>> >>> someone more familiar with Chinese to say.  It's not sufficient to
>> >>> just switch the encoding of this file, though:
>> >>>
>> >>>  $ make
>> >>>  cd . && wml -q -D CUR_YEAR=2009 -o
> UNDEFuZH@uCNuCNHKuCNTW:20090214.zh-cn.html.tmp@g+w -o
> UNDEFuZH@uHKuCNHKuHKTW:20090214.zh-hk.html.tmp@g+w -o
> UNDEFuZH@uTWuCNTWuHKTW:20090214.zh-tw.html.tmp@g+w --prolog=../../bin/
> fix_big5.pl  20090214.wml
>> >>>   * Converting: [zh_CN.GB2312], /usr/bin/iconv: illegal input sequence at
> position 233
>> >>>  make: *** [20090214.zh-cn.html] Error 1
>> >>>
>> >> Doesn't surprise me. A number of characters which are present in Big5
>> >> are not present in GB2312 (and vice versa). Using iconv to convert those
>> >> characters will lead to such errors.
>> >>
>> >> zh-autoconvert might give better results.
>> >>
>> >> Else, if you can give me the link to the source, then I can take a look.
>> >
>> > Sure, it's available in the webwml CVS module at
>> > chinese/News/2009/20090214.wml.  You can find instructions for
>> > accessing the repository at
>> >
>> >  http://www.debian.org/devel/website/using_cvs
>> >
>> OK, attached are the results for review.
>> Build-Depends: zh-autoconvert
>> To convert from Big5 into GB2312:
>>        autob5 -o gb < 20090214.wml > 20090214_gb2312.wml
>> To convert from Big5 into UTF-8:
>>        autob5 -o utf8 < 20090214.wml > 20090214_zht_utf8.wml
>> To convert from Big5 into simplified Chinese UTF-8:
>>        autob5 -o gb < 20090214.wml | autogb -o utf8 > 20090214_zhs_utf8.wml
>> I used the latter two commands to generate the attached files.
>> The difference between iconv and zh-autoconvert is that iconv simply
>> tries to convert the codepoints one to one and zh-autoconvert uses a
>> dictionary to map traditional characters to their simplified
>> counterparts. Since the database is quite old, it may not work for
>> simplified <-> traditional mappings where simplified characters have
>> been added later (GBK) or where the document contains HKSCS characters,
>> which use the Big5 Private Use Area. Those characters cannot be converted.
>> I have long wanted to create a new library where a full Unicode
>> compatible mapping takes place. Unfortunately I don't have the time for
>> that. But if there are any volunteers out there, I'm willing to
>> coordinate such a project.
>> Cheers
>> Arne
> Hi all,
> I have been thinking that using Big5 as the primary encoding for both
> TC (Traditional Chinese) and SC (Simplified Chinese) versions of
> Debian website are detrimental to user contributions. To summarize the
> current situation of the Chinese versions of Debian website,
> translations must be done in Big5 WML files, TC version is basically
> converted simply from WML to HTML, but to generate the SC versions,
> Big5 files must be converted to GB2312 first. It is done so due to the
> one-to-many SC-TC mappings problem. To deal with the differences of
> terms for the same meaning in TC and SC, like 文件 and 檔案, we use a
> simple mapping table written in Perl and for some terms that are
> rarely used, inline WML substitution syntax is used, like [CN:文
> 件:][HKTW:檔案:].
> This puts a hurdle for SC users to submit translations to Debian,
> because they write in SC but then have to use whatever method to
> convert it to Big5 for submission. And there is also the possibility
> that the converted Big5 file may not contain proper TC
> words/phrases. It also gives people the impression that SC
> contributors are treated like "second-class citizens" (am I too
> sensitive?).  Not to mention that Big5 and GB2312 are both considered
> as outdated encodings now and should better be replaced by UTF-8, to
> make the same file accessible to both TC and SC users.
> I suggest 1. to convert all existing Chinese WML files for the Debian website
> from Big5 to UTF-8, and 2. to use MediaWiki's Chinese conversion table to do
> both TC-SC and SC-TC conversions. This way, we no longer need to care which
> script the translators use and the burden for them to use Big5 is lifted.
> For MediaWiki's Chinese conversion system, please see:
>  1. http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/
>     Automatic_conversion_between_simplified_and_traditional_Chinese
>  2. http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/trunk/phase3/includes/
>     ZhConversion.php?revision=47314&view=markup
>  3. http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Conversiontable/zh-hant
>  4. http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Conversiontable/zh-hans
> Any comments?
> --
> Anthony

It is great to migrate to UTF-8 encoding to ease encoding conversion.
However, I'm a little bit concerned with solution for automatic dialect
handling in mediawiki, which is complicated and possibly error-prone.
It'll be good if the inline diversion solution currently in use can be
retained.  Plus, several diversions that are synonyms can be unified, as
the example given above.  Ideas?

Deng Xiyue

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