Hi Andrei,
I'm the one who wrote much of the stuff under /CD/, so it's all my fault...
;) Thanks for the remarks. I've read through the thread at
<http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2006/03/thrd4.html#01511>, here are
some comments on it and your mail:
On Mon, Apr 10, 2006 at 11:09:34PM +0300, Andrei Popescu wrote:
> They seem not to be aware of the arguably greatest feature of Debian: its
> packaging system. Being used to other OSes or distros, they don't realize
> that they can install a full Debian with only the netinstall CD and
> upgrade to the next release in place.
The page that is supposed to tell people about this is
<http://www.debian.org/CD/> - the first bullet about netinst CDs tries to
tell people that they do not need the full CDs. IMHO it is pretty clear -
any ideas on how to improve it?
In <http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2006/03/msg01524.html>, Chris Lale
makes a similar point:
> You certainly have to plough your way through the Debian website to
> understand what you need to do. A prominent "How to get started with
> Debian" page might work. Just short and sweet, but explaining all the
> different ways of getting a system set up - buying CDs, downloading
> (jigdo), burning isos, net install, etc.
...but that page exists, it is /CD/ :-|
TBH, sometimes my impression is that users first download *everything* they
can get their hands on and only then start to actually read the website.
Andrei Popescu wrote:
> I can imagine this might have scared off many potential new users. Some
> info like: "For a typical Desktop install you need CD1 and 2" would be
> the least to provide.
True - at the moment, it is only explained in an entry of the CD FAQ. Hmm,
what do you think, maybe I should provide a link to the FAQ entry on each
of the pages /CD/jigdo-cd/, /CD/torrent-cd/ and /CD/http-ftp/ ?
In <http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2006/03/msg01556.html>, Andrei
Popescu wrote:
> A quick peak at debian-cd shows that there are discussions about having a
> Desktop install with as few CDs as possible. This is the development
> part. The site developers should present this accordingly. Something
> like: "For a Desktop install you need at least CD1 and 3".
This is a bit difficult in practice. "Desktop install" means different
things to different users ("What - no application XYZ? You suck!").
Furthermore, a notice about this wouldn't be that simple because it would
have to distinguish between stable and testing images. Finally, the testing
images change too frequently - if the information in such a notice were too
exact, it would also become outdated too quickly.
I think the fairly general "you probably only need the first two CDs" from
<http://www.debian.org/CD/faq/#which-cd> is about as definitive as we can
get ATM. :-/
In <http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2006/03/msg01565.html>, Neil Dugan
wrote:
> Another thing that might be handy is to have a web form with the major
> packages on it that you can tick off to get a list of iso files needed to
> install those packages.
Something similar to this is available (though admittedly somewhat hidden)
via <http://www.debian.org/CD/jigdo-cd/#search>. However, it only works for
individual packages, not tasks. It would be tricky, but not impossible, to
implement the task-based version you seem to envision.
From time to time, I toy with the thought of a general download form which
also helps you pick the right mirror. This is made difficult/impossible by
the incomprehensible restriction of having no scripts on www.d.o. :-\ Also,
I do not have the time/energy to implement it, someone else will have to do
it.
In <http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2006/03/msg01831.html>, Andrei
Popescu wrote:
> Or maybe use jigdo to build your own CD-set according to task and/or
> individual package selections?
That way lies madness IMO! This can go wrong in too many ways, we would
have to support a million different CD variants, users' problems with
individual images would be difficult to track down, there'd be big
confusion of what a "Debian CD" actually is etc... people should just use
the netinst CD which contains a nice installer to guide them through the
package selection process! [Besides, jigdo cannot really do what you
suggest.]
Cheers,
Richard
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