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Re: Re: Debian BSD.. cool idea



(lots of things snipped out)

On Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 04:38:42PM -0600, Dan Potter wrote:
> I recall waay back on Jan 30 when Dan Papasian wrote:
> 
> > Same with the rest of the UNIX world. (FreeBSD Included)
> > Things in /usr/local were installed by the user.  Things in /usr were
> > installed by the operating system.
> 
> But... for example: if you install _only_ the "base.tar.gz" file that is
> like the FreeBSD "bin" distribution, you automatically get Perl and a
> number of other things that definitely aren't directly supported by
> Debian. They are supported in concert with the original authors (like Raul
> said) but not by Debian themselves. Likewise, unless you do something
> about it, Debian attempts to install Emacs for you by default (more like a
> distribution package than an 'added' package). Even so, all that stuff
> that got installed from the base tarball gets an entry in the dpkg
> records and can be upgraded independently, even though the base system
> depends on it.
Now that is one of the things I'd like to see becoming reality with
Debian/FreeBSD.
I use both (FreeBSD since 2.2.2-RELEASE), and while I know it works, I really
don't like the way you upgrade FreeBSD. I upgraded my FreeBSD box from 3.0 to
3.3 not so long ago, only to find myself in confronted with 3.4-release just a
few weeks after. It's not that I don't want to compile things myself (I have a
separate 600Mb /usr/src partition on my primary linux system ;-)
I hate, for example, the fact that you can't really know what's getting
installed when you do a 'make world' (unless of course you'd record all it's
output and go check through that.

> The question is when moving to DebianBSD, should it continue the tradition
> of installing packages from Debian into /usr, and the user installed
> packages from source go into /usr/local, or should it go the BSD way and
> install only the base packages into /usr? There are several answers to
> that question:
> 

> - This _is_ going to be *Debian*BSD, and as Debian says, they're not just
> a kernel... so the dominiant paradigm already in Debian makes more sense
> to stick with in some ways. This is debatable of course since the Hurd
> folks decided to install in /. And I guess it depends on whether you're
> trying to add BSD into Debian or Debian into BSD. I'm rooting for the
> former personally.
> 
Exactly. Otherwise it might just be a matter of making a port of every Debian
package which isn't ported yet.
What I'm simply trying to say is, the people who are interested in
Debian/FreeBSD don't want a few more packages added to a FreeBSD system, they
want a *Debian* system, which happens to be 'Powered by FreeBSD' ;-)
Those who'd want a FreeBSD system, it's already available (haven't you
noticed?)

> Buuuuut... on the making a new OS vs fixing the original, I think the
> point is that people want to attempt a Debian / FreeBSD hybrid anyway, and
> this doesn't adversely affect your ability to use FreeBSD. If you like it
> better, then by all means, keep using it! =) I like Debian better, but I'd
> like a BSD kernel. If there's a happy medium where we don't need to
> recompile all the packages in Debian for the BSD kernel immidiately, but
> it is possible to install that way, I'm all for at least playing with it.
> 
See above. I don't mind the recompiling thing - I already do so on FreeBSD - but
it'd be nice not having to do so, yes.

> > More of the above: Things good with FreeBSD :)  I get the feeling that
> > the next entries will be things that I have to defend/fix :)
> 
> Well.. again, I am just trying to brainstorm out some thoughts from the
> point of view of a Linux user and a Debian user as to why I'd like to see
> a DebianBSD. FreeBSD is a nice system on its own, and I'm not trying to
> say that it needs to take a hint from Debian. I would just like to mash
> together BSD and Debian for personal usage =)
> 
I think that's what everybody who's in favour if this would want.
I can't understand why the FreeBSD people on this list are so strong against it.

> > The problem with the current method of managing the base system with
> > cvsup/make world is?  (There are binary upgrades available too, via
> > sysinstall, but they are less popular.  I've heard only good things
The all-or-nothing approach. You get everything what is in bin, dict, des,
doc, ... or you get nothing out of that set.


Regards,

Filip

--
Get a life. Get Windows(tm). It makes you wanna spend a lot less time with your pc.


<------------------------ Filip Van Raemdonck ----------------------->
filipvr@xs4all.be              Helpdesk        Tel: +32/(0)9/265.02.05
http://www.xs4all.be        Webengineering     Fax: +32/(0)9/265.02.50
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