Re: Alive?

[Gary Kline <kline@thought.org>]

On Wed, Jul 14, 1999 at 04:20:04PM -0700, Brent Fulgham wrote:
> > 
> >   What happened to this list?  Seems like the entire 
> > discussion ended in
> >   one usec...
> > 
> >   gary
> 
> Sorry Gary.  I'm here, just busy on other things today.


	Okay; good to know that everything didn't abruptly <B>stop</B>.

	My next follow-up note was to ask the few of us who wanted 
	to present a plan.  Plan, outline of a plan; even a whisper
	of an outline. 

> 
> I think we concluded that there were three alternatives that
> we might pursue, none of which are mutually exclusive:
> 
> 1.  A Debian BSD-Kernel package (+necessary infrastructure)
> 	Level of Effort:  Low, due to BSD's Linux compatibility layer
> 
> 2.  Port some of Debian's User tools to the BSD platform:
> 	(E.g., dpkg, apt, etc.)
> 	Level of Effort:  Moderate.  Some ports already exist, but
> 	there are sure to be many unforseen porting issues.
> 
> 3.  Porting the entire Debian distribution to BSD:
> 	Level of Effort:  Extreme.  Many person-months of effort.


	I think that #1 and #2 will give us the best mix. Steve 
	mentioned that a FreeBSD "port" of dpkg was nearly complete,
	and whatever else drops-in (or nearly) would be good, too.
	For example, there are some GNU utils that are just a bit
	fancier (and perhaps useful) that would build if the 
	configure tool picked the GNU libs. 

	#2 can be a background effort; whoever has a few hours a 
	month to port over a few misc Debian tools could do it.
	In other words, I see this as being ~80% #1, and the rest
	#2.  

	There is no timeline; no deadline.  This can remain primarily
	an experiment until we've got a sustaining momentum.


> 
> Now, I have a few BSD-Linux compatibility questions:
> (1)  If I have a Linux-compatible BSD kernel, can I run BSD and Linux
> binaries simultaneously?  I assume you must be able to, because I might
> have a BSD Apache running in the background while I play Linux-Quake.
> (2)  Are there any Linux Binaries you are aware of that do not work with
> BSD?


	As far as I know everything works harmonously.  I can run the
	Linux xwp and any BSD binary.  I can, and I do, :-)

	Only the drivers and whatever other kernel-side code there 
	may be doesn't work with the BSD kernel.   I have 0.0 idea
	what's involving in rewriting a Linux driver for the BSD 
	kernel; my best SWAG is that it wouldn't be that hard.



> I mean, why not just run a BSD kernel in the middle of a Debian distribution
> and call it a day?  Why the need to port the Linux user space?


	Let me answer that with a question: What programs does Linux 
	have the BSD doesn't?  And vice-versa?  ((Not drivers, &c.))

	I've seen several (fewer than 20, I think) GNU utilities that
	just-worked on my SunOS-4.1 at work.  There are probably 
	unknown, un-realized opportunities for cross-pollination here.

	No, nothing was that earthshaking that I can name anything... .


> (3)  If we ported Debian's packaging tools to BSD, how would you want this
> integrated with the rest of the environment?  Should all Linux binaries go
> in their own directory someplace?  Should they go right in alongside the
> other binaries?


	Steve Price is the ports wizard.  My bias is to integrate
	everything the way they are on the Debian distribution.
	Or in /usr/local/* if that makes sense.

> (4)  Would BSD users want to use dpkg just to install Linux binaries?  Or
> would the idea be to eventually just use dpkg for BSD binary distribution
> as well?  (It's interesting to note that there has been some discussion in
> Debian to provide for source downloads via dpkg with local compile -- this
> would be especially useful in the case of software that would benefit from
> a hardware-specific compile).
> 

	I think for both installations.  Note that I like to have the
	source for anything on my system, so if the Debian packaging
	system can do this--fetch the src and build and install, then
	marvelous.

	This is another Steve question....

> Thats all I can think of for now.
> 

	Good 'nuff; looks like we've posed some good initial questions.

	gary
> 
> 
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-- 
   Gary D. Kline         kline@tao.thought.org          Public service Unix