Re: Install the GRUB boot loader on a hard disk
John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> On 3/18/20 3:26 PM, Justin B Rye wrote:
>> Sure, and indeed I nearly mentioned "floppy" disk. But "hard disk"
>> isn't a case where the new thing has taken over the old meaning;
>> people don't generally say "pass me the hard disk" when they mean an
>> SD card.
>
> That's because you are comparing apples and oranges. Despite most computers
> shipping with SSDs these days, people will still say "I'll install that
> the software onto hard-disk" simply because that has become a synonym
> for a disk built into your computer.
Possibly... Google mostly finds people using "install to hard disk"
used in contrast to "run as liveCD", which is mostly evidence that the
phrase occurs in old installer texts like this one, and we knew that.
> An SD card is considered a removable storage medium, hence you wouldn't
> use it in this context.
Good point, I was wandering off into scenarios that wouldn't go
through this dialogue anyway.
>> And when things change, we don't *have* to change the
>> definitions of our words to match the new things; we don't *have* to
>> redefine "floppy disk" to mean "USB thumbdrive" - and indeed we
>> didn't. There are often alternative options.
>
> In particular, the development of language doesn't follow logic
> and even science because the average Joe usually doesn't have
> the expert knowledge to use the correct terminology.
>
>> What do you think of the options suggested so far?
>>
>>>> I don't know what I'd suggest instead, but possibilities include:
>>>> "Install the GRUB boot loader to hardware"
>>>> "Install the GRUB boot loader on this system"
>>>> "Install the GRUB boot loader on the system disk"
>>>> "Install the GRUB boot loader to disk"
>>>> "Install the GRUB boot loader to a non-volatile storage device"
>>
>> And a new suggestion:
>> "Install the GRUB boot loader"
>
> Well, the thing is that I think it's more important what the commonly
> used language is and if you use your Google-fu to check how common
> the sentence "install GRUB to hard disk" and ""install GRUB to SSD"
> is, you will understand what I mean.
That certainly proves that these strings occur in texts that google
indexes. It doesn't tell us anything about whether the alternatives
that *aren't* used in those texts would communicate more effectively.
> While I understand the reasoning of this change, I don't think it
> actually helps improving the user experience.
>
> I again have the impression that this is a change that is made
> for the sake of making a change and now we're searching for arguments
> to justify the change.
Personally I'm still only looking for opinions about the merits of the
various options.
> Normally, you make changes because you have identified a problem
> from user reports. But this is basically backwards, you see the
> need for a change and you're now trying to find a justification
> for it.
In the case of my nitpick about "install", I just went for the
strategy of documenting it as ambiguous-in-principle on
https://wiki.debian.org/Glossary#install
>>> You also have to keep in mind that this needs to be translated
>>> into other languages. I have the impression that a lot of these
>>> discussions about deprecating apparently older terms revolve
>>> around the English language only.
>>
>> Well, that's good news, isn't it? If it turns out it's only the
>> English version that has the problem and the translations are
>> futureproof, the translators won't need to do any work here.
>
> For German:
>
> - hardware - Hardware
> - this system - dieses System
> - hard disk - Festplatte
> - system disk - Systemplatte
> - storage medium - Speichermedium
> - disk - Platte (so a platter)
> - non-volatile storage device - nicht-fluechtiges Speichergeraet
>
> So, if I asked my dad which one he finds easiest to understand, I can
> assure you that "Festplatte" is the term he would use for the built-in
> disk, independent of whether it's an SSD, an HDD, an MO-drive, a ZIP
> drive, an SD card, an NMVE card and so on, simply because he doesn't
> understand the difference of most of these and doesn't care.
Interesting - a "Platte" isn't necessarily circular (compare
"Tischplatte"), so maybe it's natural for it to cover solid-state
devices. Of course, English stopped really caring about that when we
started calling rigid squares "floppy disks".
>>>>> When are we going to replace "REWIND", "PAUSE", F. FWD", "PLAY" and
>>>>> "RECORD" on playback devices since we are no longer dealing with tapes
>>>>> and "re-cording" and "re-winding" does not actually reflect anymore
>>>>> what's happening?
>>>>
>>>> "Record" and "cord" are etymologically unconnected, so the only dead
>>>> metaphor in that list is "REWIND" - and why use that when you could
>>>> use the self-explanatory standard ideogram "⏪"?
>>>
>>> I don't think that's the case. Sony used to call their tape recorders
>>> "tape corder" which is why all cassette decks started with a model
>>> number "TC-".
>>
>> Would you like to make a bet? *My* guess is that it's from "cor"
>> meaning "heart".
>>
>> (I always assumed those were Sony tape *cassette* recorders...)
>
> No:
>
>> https://digitalgallery.bgsu.edu/collections/item/8353
Oh, a neologism "tapecorder"! Like "camcorder", come to think of it.
> The first tape device that Sony made was a reel-to-reel recorder,
> the compact cassette was invented in the mid 60ies by Philips,
> almost 20 years after Sony was founded in 1946.
Well, then, you can be quite confident you're right, can't you? You
can safely bet everything on your deduction that "recorder" is
etymologically connected to "cord", right?
(Hint: don't take this bet!)
--
JBR with qualifications in linguistics, experience as a Debian
sysadmin, and probably no clue about this particular package
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