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Bug#770812: marked as done (tasksel: task-sysvinit to allow easy installation of non-systemd systems)

Your message dated Tue, 25 Nov 2014 01:37:18 +0100
with message-id <20141125003718.GB3180@mraw.org>
and subject line Re: Bug#770812: tasksel: task-sysvinit to allow easy installation of non-systemd systems
has caused the Debian Bug report #770812,
regarding tasksel: task-sysvinit to allow easy installation of non-systemd systems
to be marked as done.

This means that you claim that the problem has been dealt with.
If this is not the case it is now your responsibility to reopen the
Bug report if necessary, and/or fix the problem forthwith.

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-- 
770812: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=770812
Debian Bug Tracking System
Contact owner@bugs.debian.org with problems
--- Begin Message --- 
Package: tasksel
Version: 3.29
Severity: wishlist

Hello,
It has been argued that late changes to the debian installer should be
avoided, and the maintainers have clearly expressed that they do not want
to add another debconf question:
https://lists.debian.org/debian-boot/2014/11/msg00408.html

My proposal is not to forcibly have users answer this question and decide
on an init system upon install. But there seems to be a larger userbase
that does want to keep sysvinit (in fact, I have switched all my systems
to systemd; but I do have an interest to have the noise eventually stop).

Can maybe the "tasks" system help here?
Can we have a task-sysvinit which depends on sysvinit-core, and which
conflicts systemd-sysv, and does installing such a task achieve the
desired results at installation time?

IMHO, adding a task package is a minimally invasive change to the install
process, and given the many requests for a sysvinit install option, this
may well be acceptable to the release managers. It's just not entirely
clear to me whether this works (i.e. when tasks are considered during
the installation phase, and whether this allows overriding the package
providing "init"), and the procedure necessary to get such a change
accepted into tasksel, the installation media, and jessie.

(And yes, I'm aware of the preseeding option to pass
  preseed/late_command="in-target apt-get install -y sysvinit-core"
to the installer. Essentially, I'm thinking of minimally invasive ways
to make this easier to access by end users - this is a pretty long
boot option to type, without the option of doing copy&paste when installing
a physical system...)

In the end, "Switch boot process to sysvinit" is a "task" that will end up
on the TODO list of many sysadmins (e.g. where because of some compatibility
or policy issue, they want to have all their servers on sysvinit)

-- System Information:
Debian Release: jessie/sid
  APT prefers unstable
  APT policy: (500, 'unstable'), (1, 'experimental')
Architecture: amd64 (x86_64)
Foreign Architectures: i386

Kernel: Linux 3.16-2-amd64 (SMP w/8 CPU cores)
Locale: LANG=de_DE.utf8, LC_CTYPE=de_DE.utf8 (charmap=UTF-8)
Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/dash

Versions of packages tasksel depends on:
ii  apt                     1.0.9.3
ii  debconf [debconf-2.0]   1.5.53
ii  liblocale-gettext-perl  1.05-8+b1
ii  perl-base               5.20.1-3
ii  tasksel-data            3.29

tasksel recommends no packages.

tasksel suggests no packages.

-- debconf information excluded

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
Erich Schubert <erich@debian.org> (2014-11-24):
> reopen 770812
> thanks

Please stop BTS ping-pong.

> Hello,
> Read the QUESTION.
> Not only the word "systemd".
> 
> You are still not listening to my actual question, only raising your
> sysvinit-shields.
> 
> 
> I'm asking if a TASK can solve this maybe more nicely than the other
> proposed approaches.
> 
> Bug #668001 does not mention this possibility as far as I can tell:
> The word "task" is NEVER discussed there.
> And the "late_command" solution is not userfriendly at all.
> 
> Therefore, this is a different wishlist item, against a different
> package, too...
> There is a reason why I filed this bug against *tasksel*, and not debootstrap!
> 
> I WILL accept a closing for this (non-RC, wishlist) bug IF you can
> point out a thread e.g. on debian-boot where the option of a
> task-sysvinit package to make the users happy is discussed.
> The tech-ctte discussion you cited also does NOT discuss this option...
> Because adding a task to the tasksel list IS something else than
> adding a whole new bootstrap option...
> 
> The only mentioning of tasksel in the tech-ctte thread is this:
> "1. The TC encourages a team (probably debian-boot) to provide a
> package (similar to tasksel), let's call it initsel,"
> Making a "similar" mechanism clearly is much more invasive than trying
> to use the existing tasksel mechanism, isn't it?
> 
> 
> But apparently you didn't read my question, only "systemd" and
> "sysvinit install".
> I begin to understand what the systemd opponents complain about...
> You don't actually discuss the technical aspect (can a task package
> solve this), but instead you try to silence me by 1.) closing the bug
> without discussion, now 2) closing it with a totally different
> argument and the "Tech-CTTE and GR have decided" hammer and "don't
> bring up the bug count"?!?
> 
> 
> We had a GR about making it *mandatory* to support sysvinit.
> The GR does allow to use the traditional Debian way of developing
> features and improving portability.
> Reporting a specific wishlist bug for an *optional* functionality IS
> THE PROPER PROCEDURE, isn't it?
> 
> Don't come with absurd "we're in freeze, so don't open wishlist bugs"
> arguments...
> That's not what a freeze is, and the wishlist bug does not
> > - Debian is frozen, we're trying to get the RC count down
> Seriously. A wishlist bug is not RC, is it?
> 
> 
> Back to the topic, would you PLEASE bother to discuss the option of
> adding a task to tasksel for sysvinit installation?
> Is it possible (at all), and how much testing is needed, can get this
> tested in time for jessie?

There won't be any prompts regarding non-default init systems in d-i.
Those who need so badly to use sysvinit already can. There's no reason
to confuse other people with any such prompt, whatever the form (task or
anything else).

Which has already been said, multiple times, on multiple mailing lists,
including debian-boot@, over the past few months, weeks, days, and hours.

So, yes, I did read your chit-chat, but the bottom line remains: no.


Besides: I'm not sure where you got the impression I owe you anything.


KiBi.

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