Re: This is getting ridiculous ...
On Sat, Jun 17, 2006 at 08:47:32AM +0200, Frans Pop wrote:
> (CC'ing to d-private as the same misconception is seen there.)
>
> On Saturday 17 June 2006 03:41, Anthony Towns wrote:
> > As far as everyone else is concerned, this is a disagreement between
> > Sven and Frans; and if Frans isn't willing to pretend that there's no
> > problem and give Sven access to subversion, that may well be Sven's
> > problem, or it might be Frans', or it might just be the way things are.
> > Anyone who does think losing access to a repository puts you in a lower
> > position is mistaken, and that includes Sven.
>
> I strongly object to the fact that this issue keeps being reduced to a
> problem between Sven and me. If other important members of the d-i team
Then please tell me who is with you on this.
> (and people on other teams and within the project) did not have exactly
> the same problems with Sven, I would never have taken this action.
Then you should not have.
> Instead I would have asked someone else to take care of communicating
> with Sven.
> I am very disappointed that I seem to have to repeat this point.
It is your own fault, even over a month after ward, and after some weeks
vacationing around mexico, you took exception of innocuous things i said on
irc and email, and rejected any effort i made to play nice.
> The problem was that others within the d-i team had stopped communicating
> with (or at least "listening to") Sven long before.
So, i am perfectly able to work on the parts of d-i which interests me, and
which you have not found a replacement for, despite your promises of when you
summarily kicked me out, without getting the approval of you.
> Also, Sven was repeatedly bringing up a subject in both the d-boot and
> d-kernel mailinglists and IRC channels (a subject that basically only he
> felt was a priority) with implicit or explicit statements that "the d-i
> teams are assholes".
Please provide a quote. Also you pass under silence that you have constantly
been bashing me on irc and debian-kernel lists and elsewhere, and undermined
the effort of the kernel team, and made all your possible to discredit my
competence, even on the day of the 2.6.14 almost-same-day release of
linux-2.6, which i believe was one of the greatest achievements of the
post-sarge era, and an example of coordination and team-play.
> That is not being a team player.
And using your powers to solve a petty social dispute in which you are not all
white, is not being a leader.
> Finally, Sven had the habit of blaming any breakage in powerpc
> installations on changes "others" had made in d-i, repeatedly claiming
> that core d-i people "do not care about other architectures", which is
> patently untrue.
Indeed. I still claim it. The problem is that the concept of how d-i works
right now leads to such breakage. Both with the .udeb kernels and with the
daily builds, it is an uneeded multiplication of work, since every porter has
to redo the exact same work, and there is no communication between thems, even
though you or joey or whoever already fixed the issue for x86, you didn't care
about informing the other porters.
And when i dared suggest a way in which this could be made easier, i was shot
down, and my disagreement with you and joeyh on this is the reason why you led
this witch-hunt against me and decided to kick me out.
So, again, is a good leader someone who has to resort to exclusion because he
can't take technical critics ?
> The real cause of the breakage was in most cases that Sven had failed to
> keep up with developments in d-i and had allowed ppc specific code to
> bitrot to the point where breakage occurred.
Possibly. But over the time, all powerpc work of d-i has come to rely solely
on me, which was ok when i had time, but naturally failed when i had both less
time and was under considerable stress over my personal situation, which you
not only dismissed, but took oportunity to harass me until i wrote that " i
won't do porting" letter. Despite my mother almost dying a few minutes before,
and me writing you a pleading letter to be comprehensive.
And this doesn't exccuse the way you received attempts to *discuss* possible
technical solutions to solve this. It is clear that under your leadership,
independent thinking and discussion is not wanted.
> Blaming others for your own failures is also not being a team player.
Maybe, but failing to take into account the situation of your team members and
blaming all of him, even your own failings are not being a leader.
> I feel that if there can no normal communication between a team and an
> individual, then that individual should not be a member of that team. The
> revocation of Sven's commit access followed from that (after discussing
> it with other core team members).
Well, i have no problem speaking with others of the d-i team, it is only with
you, and to some lesser degree with joeyh, that there are problems. The only
reason other find me exasperating is the direct cause of your actions against
me.
As for speaking it with other core members, please tell us who was involved in
those discussions, and what they did say, or they could say it themselves too.
> (I do fully agree with most of the other points made by AJ in his mail,
> which is available in the d-boot archives.)
Indeed, how would you not be in accord with him, he gave you full reason to
misbehave, and didn't even dare open the less critic to you.
Hurt,
Sven Luther
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