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Re: Summary of the workshop on CDDs held in Valencia

>>>>> On Thu, 13 May 2004 15:15:24 +0200 (CEST), Andreas Tille <tillea@rki.de> said:

    Andreas> On Wed, 12 May 2004, Free Ekanayaka wrote:
    >> Last but not least, a preliminary collection of pictures of the
    >> event can be viewed here:
    >> http://alvin.homelinux.net/bins2004/

    Andreas> Nice. ;-)

Yeah, but it's missing you taking that icy bath.. we should ask maddog
for that ;)

    >> Furthermore the presence of Richard Stallman from the Free
    >> Software Foundation and Jon Hall from Linux International
    >> contributed to the visibility of the event.

    Andreas> I guess Jon would like to pronounced as Jon "maddog" Hall
    Andreas> ... ;-) But this is not so important as perhaps RMS want
    Andreas> you to pronounce the GNU in front of Linux. :)

Ooops. I thought it was kind of polite/respect not inserting the nick,
but I understand Jon may think the opposite :/

    >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    >> Name: AGNULA/DeMuDi URL: http://www.agnula.org Attendants: Free
    >> Ekanayaka Committee: Formerly funded by the European
    >> Commission, now voluntary project economically supported by
    >> Firenze Tecnologia [3] Target users: Musicians, researchers,
    >> audio professionals
    >> Currently a semi-official CDD, in the sense that part of the
    >> packages are already in Debian and a Debian Multimedia mailing
    >> list exists. Free Ekanayaka is in the process to become a
    >> Debian Developer and once he gets in he'll upload to Debian the
    >> rest of his packages.  Moreover he is closely following the
    >> debian-custom mailing list, and working to improve the cdd-dev
    >> package and make the A/DeMuDi meta packages compliant with the
    >> emerging CDD guidelines.

    Andreas> Time to upload the first meta packages. ;-)

Well, I'm eager  to do that. But awfully  I'm not  a Debian maintainer
yet :/

Moreover I'm   a little  bit worried  by  the  fact  that  the current
strategy  adopted by the  task packges (i.e. depending   on a bunch of
other packages) is  seen  as a possible   source of problems  by  some
people (see the recent post from Joey Hess on debian-edu).

    >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    >> Speaker: Javier Vinuales When: May 7th, morning Slides:
    >> http://www.miu-ft.org/~free/200405-valencia/adaptando_debian_a_sab=
    >> ores_locales.pdf
    >> After a brief presentation of the Guadalinex project, Javier
    >> introduced the issue of the Debian release system, which
    >> currently makes difficult for a CDD to base its releases on
    >> Debian stable.
    >> Then he described some possible modifications to the Debian
    >> archive and release system, which are partly mentioned in
    >> Andreas' document on the CDDs [5].

    Andreas> I tried to adopt the (at least for me) main important
    Andreas> idea of the different way for distributing Debian under

    Andreas>    Andreas> http://people.debian.org/~tille/cdd/ch-todo.en.html#s-new_ways_of_distribution

    Andreas> (Search for "testing_proposed_updated" for exactly
    Andreas> Javier's suggestion and correct me if I did not
    Andreas> understand him right.)

Well  I think your explanation of  the issue is  quite clear.  I'm not
sure of what is  the next move now, whether  to try to raise the issue
on debian-devel or to  keep  on collecting ideas  till we  have better
picture of the scene.

I'm Ccing this  mail to Martin madkiss to   see if there are any  news
from the Debian Desktop team on this issue.

    >> Then Sergio went into the question of the Debian
    >> release/archiving system and the implications it has on some
    >> important issues, as the need for LlureX to have deadlines and
    >> independent releases, with the relative stable updates. He
    >> analysed the possibility of maintaining an external
    >> (i.e. non-Debian) APT repository as a temporary workaround,
    >> waiting for better implementations of the Debian
    >> release/archive system.

    Andreas> IMHO the solution was given in Javier's talk or the URL I
    Andreas> provided above.  Please consider this seriousely.  As
    Andreas> well as Debian-Edu was the spin off for the new
    Andreas> debian-installer I see no reason why CDDs should not be
    Andreas> the driving force in finding a new way for distribution
    Andreas> and enhancing the release cycle.

This does really make sense to me too :)

    >> Here follows a not exhaustive list of the main issues which
    >> emerged orthogonally in all talks and conversations and that
    >> need further reports and discussion.
    >> o Debconf pre-feeding approach for customising packages

    Andreas> Location for cf.engine scripts:

    Andreas> http://people.debian.org/~tille/cdd/ch-todo.en.html#s-EnhancingTechnology

Andreas thanks a lot for this neat summary. I think it really gets the
point. I would just add  that cfengine (or ucf  or whatever) could  be
used not  only to write  an external configuration script for packages
which  do not  accept a certain  patch, but  even  as a  complement to

In this view debconf would be used as  frontend to ask questions and a
database to store/retrive answers, while cfengine would be used by the
postinst  scripts  as a sort   of library to  modify the configuration
files according to the deconf values.

I don't know  whether this approach is correct  or not,  but currently
even the simple use of debconf as  a database for configuration values
is not widely accepted.

For example see:

http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2004/02/msg00801.html [I've already posted this..]



Maybe we should include these links in the document.

    >> o Improvements to the current Debian archive/release system

    Andreas> (see URL above)

    >> o Easy creation of custom Live CDs and installers

    Andreas> http://people.debian.org/~tille/cdd/ch-todo.en.html#s-liveCD

    >> As these are wide topics I'll let separate post to cover them.

    Andreas> OK.  I might add that an updated cdd-doc package just hit
    Andreas> the archive and you are able to follow all the links I
    Andreas> posted offline if you like or read it in the PDF inside
    Andreas> ...

That's great. It's really important to keep  this document up to date,
so that our discussions do not over when a workshop is  over or when a
thread is dead.



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