Re: complaints about systemd
On 10/09/2014 08:46 AM, Giacomo Mulas wrote:
On Thu, 9 Oct 2014, Ray Andrews wrote:
From what I've read about the history and philosophy of all 'nix, I
thought it was a bedrock rule that primary inputs and outputs *must*
be text. Especially any sort of error log! To abandon that is to
travel down the road to Redmond, is it not? Mr. Poettering seems to
be a very clever lad, and it seems that some real deficiencies in the
old init have been identified, and some real solutions offered, but
it looks to me like systemd needs a sober re-think. Sometimes we
really can be too clever for our own good.
I could not write it any better than this, I agree with every word.
have the same very annoying behaviour on several machines that shutdown
hangs forever (or for a very long time), and in the end I frequently
pushing the power button.
That is happening here, also.
Can *anything* justify a reduction in stability?
This began to happen with systemd, and it is
horribly difficult to debug: shutdown hangs after syslog was stopped,
only way to get some decent debug info is (would have been in SystemV
have the scripts dump a lot of info in text files, and then read them.
with systemd, how do you go about debugging this?
Can *anything* justify creating a problem that can't be debugged?
I second this: systemd has some good points, but the price tag is
unreasonably high. And, most importantly, there should be some real
it should not be as deeply embedded as a dependency into many completely
unrelated things: what does a desktop environment have to do with the
system? why on earth should gnome or any other desktop environment
on systemd and be somewhat broken, or even uninstallable, without it?
Again, bedrock principles:
"Do one thing, and do it well."
"Keep entanglements to a minimum".
"Keep everything as modular as possible."
How can it even be considered that a desktop is somehow entangled with
an init system?
Supposing I bought a new fridge, and found my stove no longer worked?
Supposing I bought a new car from Toyota but it could only run on Toyota
Had I wanted this kind of overclever stuff, in which everything
(sort of) works but at the price of being a nightmare to
would have installed ubuntu, not debian!