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An Idea whose Time has Been and Gone (Was: Re: How would I get debian unstable?)



On Thursday 05 Jun 2008, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
> I think many people don't realize that installing a system is hard.  I
> think most computer users would have difficulty installing windows if
> their system hadn't come with it pre installed.

Agreed. I've installed Windows too many times.  Modern Linux distros are 
easier.  You don't need a keygen, for a start  :)

> > [Gentoo]
> > didn't seem to offer anything special over Debian apart from the
> > fact of there being no more need for -dev packages.
> If they don't have -dev packages, that means every system is wasting
> space on header files that it probably doesn't need.

Given the price per gigabyte of HDD space nowadays, that's hardly a problem.

I found it highly counterintuitive that when package foo said it needed bar 
and libbaz, and I had bar and libbaz installed, it still wouldn't build.  
Because what it *really* meant was that it needed bar, libbaz, bar-dev and 
libbaz-dev -- the files in the -dev packages would already have been there, 
of course, if I had built bar and libbaz from Source.

I know all that *now*, of course.  (And you can't have got to where you are 
now without knowing it.)  I just don't think anybody else should ever have to 
go through all the wailing and gnashing of teeth that I had to.

Back in the days when HDD space was expensive and internet connections were 
slow and/or metred, there might have been some merit in separating out -dev 
packages.  But nowadays, they are More Trouble Than They Are Worth.  Building 
packages from Source is  **not** intrinsically hard, but separate -dev 
packages make it harder than it needs to be.

Building a "minimised" system is a sufficiently specialised job that anyone 
who is trying to do that, probably will have a good idea what files they can 
comfortably live without.  I think The Rest Of Us generally like the 
convenience of automatically-installed packages  (whether they be downloaded 
as Source and compiled locally, as in Gentoo, or downloaded pre-compiled as 
in Debian and Others)  whenever possible, but occasionally have some special 
need that a package maintainer didn't think of  (or need to mix licences and 
create an unredistributable package in doing so).  And that's when the 
whole -dev ugliness comes into play.

Even if -dev wasn't to be done away with altogether, it would be nice at least 
to have an option in apt to make it automatically fetch corresponding -dev 
packages whenever they existed.


-- 
AJS
delta echo bravo six four at earthshod dot co dot uk


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