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Re: Debian 11 unofficial firmware first installation

> but it needs modifications that Debian seems unwilling to do.
> This is mere trial of intent. Don't you realize that it's just the
> best way to demotivate the very people that happen to work on such
> things? Please change your behavior, otherwise it's auto-realizing FUD.


What I was talking about is that Debian refuses to change it's policy
of non-free, meaning that a CD of Debian with today's computers,
especially today's laptops is nearly useless.  We have to wait for a
unofficial non-free Net Install CD instead of using one CD that in my
opinion should be released that's useful.  An OS that can't play
music, doesn't have firmware to allow a computer to use it, is nearly
useless.  But with modifications and updating Debian IS the best OS
around, but it takes work for the user, work that is nearly impossible
for the new user.

Instead of others asking me (and like-minded people) to change and NOT
say this, it would be lots easier for Debian to adapt to modern life.
Debian itself could be much easier to install if there were just one
CD to install for everyone, a CD with non-free firmware and multimedia
drivers, something useful that all could use "out of the box".

Our changing our behavior - saying that Debian needs to change things
- won't EVER change things because there is just no suggestion to have
things changed.  I wasn't rude, I wasn't yelling, I was frustrated
because after I learned from the Slint list that there was a problem
with the release candidate of Debian, I wanted to test it myself, and
I installed three different versions of Debian with firmware and ALL
of them failed and I've been contacted by others who have told me that
they also cannot log into GUI with either RC3 or the 11.0 release of
Bullseye.  I knew of no one that this RC3 worked for, all were
reporting failures.

I don't know if the actual official release works, but the non-free
firmware release doesn't work, again I don't know of one person that
it has worked for.

If you used the non-free release and it worked, then there's one that
I know of that says the release worked.

I didn't know that the Debian Accessibility was only one person, I
thought there had to be more because the work you do is excellent.  I
only heard of the problem with Debian Bullseye RC3 via the SLINT list.
I came and tried Bullseye RC3 and I had the same problem that that
person had, he could not log in.

I additionally had the sound card selection problem because I
unfortunately have two sound cards in my computer.
> Samuel

On Wed, Aug 18, 2021 at 3:08 PM Samuel Thibault <sthibault@debian.org> wrote:
> Hello,
> Pawel L.wrote:
> > The Speakup volume is extremely low during the installation process.
> Did you take a look at the documentation for accessibility support in
> the installer?
> https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/ch05s02.en.html#idm1260
> It notably says
> “The default volume should be medium. To make it louder, press
> CapsLock+2. To make it quieter, press CapsLock+1.”
> There is *NO* way to be able to configure the audio level at a level
> that matches all situations. The card itself, the speaker plugged on it,
> the driver, all of these have an impact on what "good audio level" would
> be. That is why there are these shortcuts to raise/lower it if never
> needed.
> > In the graphical environment, after login, I have no speech and my
> > Braille display shows only 'Window without name" message.
> So things actually seem to be just working, and it's simply that you do
> not know yet how to use the graphical desktop.  The application menu can
> be opened with the alt-f1 shortcut.
> D.J.J. Ring wrote:
> > 1.) You cannot log into MATE as a regular user.
> You definitely can. At least all my tests let me just work fine with
> MATE with the screen reader.
> > 2.) The sound card detection and selection dialog is broken because there is no
> > sound to hear to verify which sound card works.
> In my tests there definitely is. Possibly with your precise sound boards
> there are some drivers issues, but that's *not* a general problem.
> We need more information from your system to be able to work out why
> things don't work out for your.
> > But you cannot log into MATE, you can type your username and password, press
> > enter, but something crashes
> That doesn't happen in my tests. Again, we'd need more information,
> notably logs, from your system to determine what is crashing. That
> should however rather be reported to MATE maintainers since that's MATE
> that is crashing.
> > Something similar happened with the release of Buster several years ago, but
> > the next released version fixed it.
> Bugs get fixed early when they are reported early. When they are
> reported late, they are fixed late.
> > Wait for the next version, hopefully the next version will fix this problem.
> If bug reports do not contain useful information to be able to fix the
> bug, the bug cannot get auto-fixed magically.
> D.J.J. Ring, Jr., le mer. 18 août 2021 11:32:39 -0400, a ecrit:
> > Too bad they didn't see my message about RC3 failures that I sent.
> I do have in my mbox some messages from you dated august 14.
> But that was the very day of the release!! CD images were already
> getting uploaded and everything. You cannot expect bugs to be fixed with
> such a short notice.
> D.J.J. Ring, Jr. wrote:
> > They should have stopped the release because few things are worse than
> > a release that doesn't work at all.
> It does completely work in my tests.
> > Now Debian Bullseye won't even run out of the box.
> It definitely does in my tests.
> > so this is progress in the "making it worse" direction.
> If people keep just ranting and not test and not provide information on
> bugs, then yes thing will go bad. If people just happen to test the
> alpha releases and report bug with information (all you need to know to
> report is written on the wiki), then things will go smooth.
> > but it needs modifications that Debian seems unwilling to do.
> This is mere trial of intent. Don't you realize that it's just the
> best way to demotivate the very people that happen to work on such
> things? Please change your behavior, otherwise it's auto-realizing FUD.
> Samuel

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