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Re: TR: tasksel + gdm and accessibility issues for the d-i

Aldo <info@brlspeak.net> writes:

> Hi Mario:
> On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 04:06:22PM +0100, Mario Lang wrote:


>> * While it is a possible approach to have the installer explicitly
>>   select packages for the users who are going to use the machine,
>>   it is also obvious that an administrator might not know in advance
>>   that a person with special needs is going to use this machine.
> Thats why the "if [*] set on for marking that chapter, then tasksel provides
> an extra choice/question so that the right choice may be made by the user
> who's installing Debian Lenny/later.

I apparently wasn't clear enough.  What I am trying to get at is that
the user installing the system might not know in advance that a person with
special needs is going to login.  What if, for example, you walk up
to a friend/coworker and talk about some issue.  You end up wanting
to show them something, so you'd actually like to login on tehir Linux
machine with accessibility enabled so that you can work together on the
project.  However, since nobody thought their machine would ever be used by a
disabled person, the necessary software would not be installed.

That is why I think ultimately, accessibility infrastructure needs to be part
of the default desktop installation.  There are a few other scenarios as well,
like public workstations (for instance in universities) running Linux.
Currently, for them to be accessible, the admin staff needs to know all the ins
and outs of accessibility, or they at least have to make a conscious decission
about providing it to users.  If accessibility would work by default,
the chance of success for disabled people trying to find an accessible
computer would be much higher.

>>   If we think this through, we realize that what would be most desireable
>>   is to have accessibility infrastructure installed by default on a 
>>   default desktop, so that a person with special needs can just activate
>>   it at login time if they need to.  I feel that this approach would be even
>>   better than creating a large number of meta-packages for various
>>   disability needs.
> IMHO thats not much more difficult than creating the meta packs currently
> proposed after marking them from within tasksel.

I think some meta-packages are way easier to create than making accessibility
the default on all systems, your mileage my vary.

>> > 2) why not using this on a more coherent/logical way:
>> >    IMHO if there would be an entry in tasksel as described above, that
>> >    should be used to increase accessibility if the user marks it for
>> >    installation, especially with consequences like these one:
>> >    a) at the login moment in gdm: by providing a signal or voice or any
>> >       sound/message (cf. my previous mail about this issue) 
>> Have you seen my reply to your mail regarding this issue?
> Well I'm confused, you are talking about a bip whle I don't hear anything on
> my laptop. 

That is, what I was trying to get at.  Could it be that you have
the volume for PC speaker down to almost nothing on your laptop,
or you dont have a PC speaker anymore in that machine?

As someone else already confirmed, gdm does produce an audible beep
when it is ready to take your login information.  It might just be that
what you need is either to enable your PC speaker, or to reconfigure
gdm to produce a sound signal via the soundcard.  I dont see
how we can make sure this is handled automatically, the software cant really
check if a certain sound output device is connect to the outside world.
i.e., one user might have no soundcard, but a PC speaker, and yet another
might have the reverse situation, no working PC speaker but a soundcard.

>> >    b) when marked for installation, that would have the consequence to
>> >       run Orca by default from that point (gdm -> the beginning of the Gnome
>> >       session). So if you're sighted and haven't marked the
>> >      [*Desktop Accessibility item, then no problem, no login signal, no
>> >      Orca.
>> If a Linux machine were single-user by default, that would work.
>> However, the orca startup setting is per-user, not per-system.
> Well, what's the problem: the firstly created account may be considered as
> the admin's personal account, so that will be the one who matches with my
> approach. If more persons need the same feature, then the firstly created
> user can do this as many times than needed since there is always an admin at
> home, isn't it?

I dont understand.  A newly created account can always enable account-specific
settings, you dont need the "admin" to do this.  The user probably
needs to be added to the audio group, but thats yet another topic.

  ⡍⠁⠗⠊⠕ | Debian Developer <URL:http://debian.org/>
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