On 07/22/2011 09:06 PM, Jimmy Kaplowitz wrote: > On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 01:05:30PM +0200, micah anderson wrote: >> I don't think its particularly germane or illustrative to compare Clint's >> answer to the first question to dkg's. A more interesting comparison is to >> compare Clint's response to Joerg's (just to pick one, not to pick on Joerg) >> - because Joerg didn't fill it out *at all*. One of them was on the herb team >> this year, and one was not. One received requested travel sponsorship and one >> did not. > > Guess what? I agree with you. That was wrong and inconsistent and produced an > improper result, though hopefully you'll believe me that it wasn't intentional > favoritism. I agree with you that that situation is wrong and inconsistent; However, i *don't* think that Joerg being granted sponsorship was the improper result. I believe Joerg's presence at debconf is valuable (as i'm sure you do too), and i *want* him at the conference. I'm glad the herb team decided to sponsor Joerg. The improper result that arose from this situation is the lack of travel funds for Clint (and possibly others who have not spoken up?). > This goes back to us being fallible human beings like everyone else. This is a human process; we're evaluating human needs and human contributions to a human project. Clint (another human, who may also make mistakes sometimes) has contributed a lot to the project, and to debconf. The fact that there was no appeals process for Clint to remedy the situation, and that his ample justifications later failed to change the outcome is the real problem. > I'd suggest you [Joerg] give back your > sponsorship to either SPI or (if Debian thinks this would be a better thing to > do in terms of goodwill/corrective gestures) Clint. It's not my place to force > this, so this is merely a suggestion. Joerg, please do not return your travel sponsorship to SPI. Your presence at the conference is much appreciated. > If you decide not to do this, since I was one member of the team that > collectively and unanimously messed up our consistency in his case, I'll be > willing to combine personal funds with any other herb team members who like > this solution and either reimburse SPI for the full amount of Joerg's > sponsorship or (depending on which Debian prefers) donate that amount to > Clint's travel costs instead. Please do not reimburse SPI for Joerg's sponsorship. Please donate what you can to offset the travel costs for any valuable contributor who was improperly denied access to needed funds to get to the conference, and is currently paying for the trip directly out-of-pocket. > I hope this at least provides some evidence to support my good-faith efforts, > even aside from complying with my duties as a director of SPI. I don't think anyone doubts your good faith, Jimmy. But I am troubled by your earlier defensive fallback to citing strict rules in a process that inherently involve some subjective judgment. We all appear to be in agreement that at least one worthy contributor failed to get any financial assistance they requested to travel to DebConf 11. If the rules were the thing getting in the way, the best answer is to figure out how we can improve the rules and fix the situation, not to invoke the rules as an excuse. Regards, --dkg
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