Re: [Debconf-team] my thoughts last night
On Thursday 06 July 2006 09:38, Holger Levsen wrote:
> Hi,
>
> so last night I couldn't fall asleep (and took some notes) and tonite I
> woke up after after a really short time of sleep and couldn't sleep more.
>
> So this document is the result of thinking last night (with taking notes..)
> after+about the meeting what rational thoughts I have for not being in
> favor of Sarajevo anymore. Until debconf6 I didn't _like_ the UK bid and
> was neutral about Sarajevo. Debconf6 showed the importance of the localteam
> and I became in favor of Edinburgh...
>
>
> 1. From many comments from stockholm (in RL (dc6), on the list and on IRC)
> I got the impression he is clearly biased in favor of Sarajevo (and I fail
> to understand why). So much, that it somewhat puts Sarajevo down for me.
> I'm aware that this is not a a completly rational argument, but I want to
> share this with you. And I have rational arguments for my impression of
> stockholm being biased:
>
> One example the "we need the dorm option" argument, because (stockholm
> basically says) "debconf will grow each year, this is good, and we need to
> pay for everything this is the (not really changeable, not really
> discussable) way of debconf." - Of course he can say and think what he
> wants, and of course his thoughts are the thoughts of someone who has been
> deeply involved in debconf the last years (from the beginning?), but I dont
> think his "forecast" is accurate (unlimited growth?) nor what I think is
> healthy for DebConf.
No, we could save lot of money on the dorm option. I will check if the United
Nations building by the dorm is usable for auditorium purposes.
It does not hurt to check.
>
> I'm also quite disappointed that there is no costs comparison spreadsheet
> so far (even or if only with estimated numbers (you can easily put many
> calculations in one spreadsheet)) - if stockholm is the main organizer and
> says "only the dorm option is doable" I want to have this backed up by
> (comprehensible) numbers from him.
>
> Surely it also didnt help that we moved^wran from debconf6 to debconf7,
> instead of having a discussion about his leadership like many wanted. I've
> read a very good summary on this (the perceived problems with his
> leadership), which the authour didnt want to publish anymore after the
> delegation happened. And I heard many people from the team complain about
> this at or shortly after debconf6.
>
> (After saying this I should/want also state, that I do like, value and
> trust (in general, as said, I'm put off by his current behaviour) stockholm
> very much. As much as I am unhappy with some of his behaviour at dc6, I've
> been far more happy with him than unhappy ;)
>
>
> 2. Unclear flight costs for Sarajevo, while Edinburgh will certainly be
> cheaper for many europeans and us-americans. According to stockholms travel
> agent the difference in average will be 100-150 euros, if booked well in
> advance. While I do believe this is true for europeans (but not all of them
> can book well in advance, btw), I've only heard about much higher costs
> from outside europe. Also, people who will need visas might also not be
> able to book well in advance.
>
>
> 3. Unclear Visa situation. According to Sapphire (and contrary to official
> information on official bosnian websites), people can fly to Sarajevo and
> get a visa at the airport. If they dont want to risk wasting money and time
> by doing so and then not getting the visa, e.g. latin americans either need
> to travel to argentina to the bosnien embassy there or to the US (and
> probably need another visa for that, and of course this is also expensive.)
>
> http://lists.debconf.org/lurker/message/20060619.110359.78423ced.en.html
> only states "we could request" (which might be denied), and there is no
> answer to the concern raised in
> http://lists.debconf.org/lurker/message/20060627.151735.c5bfa627.en.html so
> far.
>
> http://lists.debconf.org/lurker/message/20060618.002949.ac6946bf.en.html is
> where the visa thread started. (And where you can find visa information
> about both countries.)
>
We have had a number of big international events so far, both conferences,
sports events, fair etc. And all the participants got their visas at the
airport without any fuss. We are still not a Schengen country, so it is much
easier for people to get a Bosnian visa.
Information I got directly from Bosnian goverment, Ministry of Foreign
Affairs.
>
> 4. The USA and Japan both warn there citizens about Bosnia (see
> http://lists.debconf.org/lurker/message/20060617.011732.497e9cce.en.html).
> While I _do_ think this is mostly goverment propaganda, I fear this might
> influence the amount of hardware we will get borrowed. Or to put it
> different, I'm sure we will get more and better stuff lent in Edinburgh.
> (Similar for the network, it sounds like we can get decent network the
> Hotel Therme (people from localteam working at the hotels ISP), while it
> sounds like we can get very good network in Edinburgh (three independent
> ISPs want to sponsor debconf by now, maybe more, maybe gigabit).
>
>
> 5. From the venues itself, I think both options sound good. Edinburgh
> sounds nice with being in the city and Sarajevo sounds nice being locked up
> in a hotel outside the side :) Really. Both aspects (in the side or in a
> hotel more outside) have their pros and cons, but both (venues alone) sound
> equally good to me. I think I do want to state, that Scotland also sounds
> interesting to me. Sure, Sarajevo sounds even more interesting, but that
> doesn't mean Scotland is boring or like all the rest of Europe (haha! like
> Europe is the same everywhere. We are not there yet.)
>
> But being cultural interesting is only a minor aspect when choosing the
> place. And from the places itself, both sound good to me.
>
>
> 6. We don't know the Sarajevo localteam and they're hardly involved with
> Debian. If they fail, we can only say "oh no". If the Edinburgh team fails,
> noone will want to co-maintain packages with them anymore :) Also, from
> what I've seen in the last three month, I'm far more impressed with the
> work of the EDI team, both technically and socially.
You have not been folowing Bosnian team really.
Please see on our wiki page / ask delegates who were here.
>
> 7. Some women have raised concerns about Sarajevo and the localteams
> attitude has mostly been to deny these concerns instead of addressing them.
> This is like being told the water in Mexico is drinkable instead of being
> able to make an informed deciscion.
>
Not true again, please see the backlog of lastnight's meeting and you will see
first hand answers from women to women.
> 8. While I agree (and very much like) that DebConf is also about spreading
> the ideas of free software, I do think DebConf is mostly an event to
> improve and strenghten Debian, both socially and technologically. And...
>
>
> 9. after all the stress at debconf6, I want to have a "good (as in
> productive) and easy (as in fun)" debconf this time for sure. I've seen far
> more indications that Edinburgh is a good choice for this than Sarajevo.
>
>
> regards,
> Holger, who will now enjoy breakfast... ;)
Cheers,
Safir
--
Dojdov pak tajno moja, zvezda prakam da te povika...
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