On Thu, May 10, 2007 at 12:25:43PM -0400, judd@wadsworth.org wrote: > On 9 May, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote: > >> > > 1 Corinthains 2 > > > > 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: > > for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because > > they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he that is spiritual judgeth > > all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. > > > > Universally held or not, it appears that the Bible is very clear. > > > > One passage is not the equivalent of the Bible. This text should > certainly be considered, in the context in which it was written. My > point is that many Christian writers believe that all people are > naturally able to comprehend the works of God, and I'm sure that they > base that conclusion at least partly on scripture. > I think we have a slight disconnect here. I think that we are both right. Your statemtent that "all people are able to comprehend the works of God" is 100% true. For example: Psalms 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. These are things that everyone can plainly see. I'm sure that there are more examples. As far as my statement, the "things of the Spirit of God" refers clearly to the blessings of God. That is, the natural man is able to know the existence of God (how else can he choose to leave behind his carnal ways and follow God?), but is not able to count on the promises of God (except that God will save him if repents and accepts Jesus Christ). > > > > John 3: > > > > 1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the > > Jews: 2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we > > know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these > > miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. 3 Jesus answered > > and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be > > born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 4 Nicodemus saith unto > > him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second > > time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, > > verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the > > Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born > > of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. > > 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. > > > > Considering that Jesus called it a *must*, I'd say it should be very > > important to *every* Christian. I don't tend to place importance on > > things based on whether one group or another says that it is important. > > I place importance on things based on what the Bible says is important. > > > > Regards, > > > > -Roberto > > I agree with you on this. My point was that some American evangelical > churches put a lot of emphasis on each person having a specific, > identifiable conversion event in their life, which I don't feel is > soundly based in scripture. I wasn't sure if your use of the term > "rebirth" referred to this type of event or the more general usage. > I see what you are saying. I generally believe that "born again" experience should generally be a significant moment in a person's life. However, I don't think it is always some sort of "light shining from heaven, angels signing" type of experience. In my case, it came on gradually over a period of weeks. But I can identify a definite before and after. I think that is "sufficient", so to speak. More importantly, however, is whether you feel that you are right with God in your conversion experience. That is, when God judges you will you be certain that you *have* at some time in your life accepted Jesus Christ? Regards, -Roberto -- Roberto C. Sánchez http://people.connexer.com/~roberto http://www.connexer.com
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