Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

[judd@wadsworth.org]

On  9 May, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote:
> On Wed, May 09, 2007 at 04:12:03PM -0400, judd@wadsworth.org wrote:
>> On  9 May, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote:
>> > On Wed, May 09, 2007 at 11:02:24AM +0200, Jochen Schulz wrote:
>> >> Ron Johnson:
>> >> > 
>> 
>> > By definition, the natural man is *not* a spritiual man, and hence
>> > not
>>                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> By no means a universally held Christian belief.  For example, read
>> C.S. Lewis or Huston Smith.
>> 
> 1 Corinthains 2
> 
> 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God:
> for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because
> they are spiritually discerned.  15 But he that is spiritual judgeth
> all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
> 
> Universally held or not, it appears that the Bible is very clear.
> 

One passage is not the equivalent of the Bible.  This text should
certainly be considered, in the context in which it was written.  My
point is that many Christian writers believe that all people are
naturally able to comprehend the works of God, and I'm sure that they
base that conclusion at least partly on scripture. 

>> 
>> The "born again" conversion experience is deemed much more important
>> in American evangelical congregations than in mainline protestant or 
>> catholic ones.
>> 
> 
> John 3:
> 
> 1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the
> Jews: 2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we
> know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these
> miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.  3 Jesus answered
> and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be
> born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.  4 Nicodemus saith unto
> him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second
> time into his mother's womb, and be born?  5 Jesus answered, Verily,
> verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the
> Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.  6 That which is born
> of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
>  7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
> 
> Considering that Jesus called it a *must*, I'd say it should be very
> important to *every* Christian.  I don't tend to place importance on
> things based on whether one group or another says that it is important.
> I place importance on things based on what the Bible says is important.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> -Roberto

I agree with you on this.  My point was that some American evangelical
churches put a lot of emphasis on each person having a specific,
identifiable conversion event in their life, which I don't feel is 
soundly based in scripture.  I wasn't sure if your use of the term
"rebirth" referred to this type of event or the more general usage.

-Chris 

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|   Christopher Judd, Ph. D.                      judd@wadsworth.org   |
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