Re: [COMMITTED] Remove obsolete Solaris 11.3 support
Hello Rainer,
On Fri, 2024-05-10 at 10:20 +0200, Rainer Orth wrote:
> > > Support for Solaris 11.3 had already been obsoleted in GCC 13. However,
> > > since the only Solaris system in the cfarm was running 11.3, I've kept
> > > it in tree until now when both Solaris 11.4/SPARC and x86 systems have
> > > been added.
> > >
> > > This patch actually removes the Solaris 11.3 support.
> >
> > I'm not sure I like this change since Solaris 11.3 is the last version of
> > Solaris supported by a large number of SPARC systems.
> >
> > Oracle unfortunately raised the hardware baseline with Solaris 11.4 such
> > that every system older than the SPARC T4 is no longer supported by 11.4
> > while 11.3 still runs perfectly fine on these machines.
>
> I wonder why you didn't raise your concerns 1 1/2 years ago when I
> announced the obsoletion of Solaris 11.3 support?
Because I wasn't subscribed to gcc-patches and I'm also only subscribed now
without receiving messages due to the large message volume on this list.
The problem with announcements on developer mailing lists is usually that they
usually don't reach any users. I was made aware of this change only when I
checked about the recent changes to GCC Git.
> > While Oracle does no longer provide feature updates to Solaris 11.3, there
> > is still LTSS security support so that users still receive security updates
> > so that their systems are continued to be protected against vulnerabilities.
>
> The Solaris 11.3 ESUs (Extended Support Updates) are available at a
> premium only, and just contain the bare minimum of security updates,
> often 6 to 9 month in between.
That's not an argument for throwing away hardware that still works perfectly
fine and that still has some users.
> > I think Solaris 11.3 support should be kept since the resulting code removal
> > is not that large that it would justify dropping support for such a large
> > userbase.
>
> Do you have any indication on the size of the userbase? I seriously
> doubt it's large beyond some hobbyists that keep the old hardware
> running.
I don't have the exact numbers, no. But I know there are many users out there
with pre-11.4 hardware that they still use. As you may know, there are no
11.4 SPARC desktop systems and most 11.4-capable hardware is usually very
expensive.
> You also seem to forget that my GCC (and LLVM) Solaris support work is
> purely voluntary, done in my spare time.
Not sure what makes you think so. I'm perfectly aware of the fact that lots of
people do this work in their spare time as this applies to me as well.
I'm not getting paid for my Debian work, my kernel maintenance and all the other
stuff that I'm doing either. That doesn't mean users are not allowed to ask me
questions or send me comments about my work.
> Keeping Solaris 11.3 support working would be much more than restoring
> the removal patch:
>
> * For each and every of my Solaris patches, I'd have to investigate if
> it works on 11.3 or needs adjustments and workarounds.
>
> * I'd also need to regularly test the result to keep things working.
>
> I honestly don't have the time or the energy to do this, nor the
> hardware required for testing Besides, I have too much on my plate
> already, and rather spend it on more beneficial work.
Does Solaris support in GCC really change that often that the necessary tests
cannot be run by volunteers? I'd be happy to test changes for Solaris 11.3
which can be installed inside an LDOM.
> Above all, I always wonder why people insist on running ancient hardware
> with an almost-unsupported OS, but require a bleeding edge version of
> GCC. What's wrong with continuing to use GCC 13 (or even 14, although I
> haven't tested that on Solaris 11.3) instead?
You could also ask why people use operating systems other than Linux and
architectures other than x86_64. I don't think you will get a satisfactory
answer to that question.
> > Removing Solaris 11.3 support might make sense in the future when SPARC
> > support in Illumos has matured enough that people can switch over their
> > machines.
>
> As has been noted, SPARC is on its way out for Illumos.
Which makes my point to keep Solaris 11.3 support even more valid.
Adrian
--
.''`. John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
: :' : Debian Developer
`. `' Physicist
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