Re: [COMMITTED] Remove obsolete Solaris 11.3 support
Hi Adrian,
>> > While Oracle does no longer provide feature updates to Solaris 11.3, there
>> > is still LTSS security support so that users still receive security updates
>> > so that their systems are continued to be protected against vulnerabilities.
>>
>> The Solaris 11.3 ESUs (Extended Support Updates) are available at a
>> premium only, and just contain the bare minimum of security updates,
>> often 6 to 9 month in between.
>
> That's not an argument for throwing away hardware that still works perfectly
> fine and that still has some users.
who talks about throwing away the hardware: just keep it running with
the latest available OS and GCC and be done with it. You still refused
to explain what's the *need* for GCC > 14 on Solaris 11.3. Nice to have
maybe, but crucial?
>> > I think Solaris 11.3 support should be kept since the resulting code removal
>> > is not that large that it would justify dropping support for such a large
>> > userbase.
>>
>> Do you have any indication on the size of the userbase? I seriously
>> doubt it's large beyond some hobbyists that keep the old hardware
>> running.
>
> I don't have the exact numbers, no. But I know there are many users out there
> with pre-11.4 hardware that they still use. As you may know, there are no
> 11.4 SPARC desktop systems and most 11.4-capable hardware is usually very
> expensive.
Sure, and they are free to to so. I've been running Solaris/SPARC
desktops for a long time myself, like an Ultra 1 or a Blade 1500.
However, once OS support was gone, I stopped and moved on.
>> You also seem to forget that my GCC (and LLVM) Solaris support work is
>> purely voluntary, done in my spare time.
>
> Not sure what makes you think so. I'm perfectly aware of the fact that lots of
> people do this work in their spare time as this applies to me as well.
>
> I'm not getting paid for my Debian work, my kernel maintenance and all the other
> stuff that I'm doing either. That doesn't mean users are not allowed to ask me
> questions or send me comments about my work.
Who talks about being allowed? But you spend your time on your
Debian/sparc64 work as you see fit, and so do I. There's only so much
time in a day, and sometime it's nice to have a private life, too.
There's simply no time left with me for keeping S11.3 support going, so
it stops. It's that simple.
>> Keeping Solaris 11.3 support working would be much more than restoring
>> the removal patch:
>>
>> * For each and every of my Solaris patches, I'd have to investigate if
>> it works on 11.3 or needs adjustments and workarounds.
>>
>> * I'd also need to regularly test the result to keep things working.
>>
>> I honestly don't have the time or the energy to do this, nor the
>> hardware required for testing Besides, I have too much on my plate
>> already, and rather spend it on more beneficial work.
>
> Does Solaris support in GCC really change that often that the necessary tests
> cannot be run by volunteers? I'd be happy to test changes for Solaris 11.3
> which can be installed inside an LDOM.
Hardware is just one concern here, but the limiting factor is my time.
No argument from you can increase that.
>> Above all, I always wonder why people insist on running ancient hardware
>> with an almost-unsupported OS, but require a bleeding edge version of
>> GCC. What's wrong with continuing to use GCC 13 (or even 14, although I
>> haven't tested that on Solaris 11.3) instead?
>
> You could also ask why people use operating systems other than Linux and
> architectures other than x86_64. I don't think you will get a satisfactory
> answer to that question.
The question is who is doing the work. As long as there's someone who
does, fine, if not then support for those OSes dies (I've had that for
both IRIX and Tru64 Unix in the past, btw.).
>> > Removing Solaris 11.3 support might make sense in the future when SPARC
>> > support in Illumos has matured enough that people can switch over their
>> > machines.
>>
>> As has been noted, SPARC is on its way out for Illumos.
>
> Which makes my point to keep Solaris 11.3 support even more valid.
You can keep wishing, but I won't be doing the work. It's that simple.
Rainer
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Rainer Orth, Center for Biotechnology, Bielefeld University
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