On Tue, 19 Jun 2007, Magnus Holmgren wrote:
Ivan Jager wrote:On Sat, 16 Jun 2007, Eduard Bloch wrote:#include <hallo.h> * Ivan Jager [Fri, Jun 15 2007, 05:36:33PM]:[...] Should we also add filesystem overhead to all file sizes just to avoid confusing newbies?Second, "du" already does that. Go figure.No, it doesn't. It rounds up to a multiple of the block size. That only accounts for a small fraction of the filesystem overheaad. (Perhaps this will be more obvious if you write a multiple of your blocksize to a file.)This sounds like another "not a perfect solution" fallacy. Accurately presenting the full amount of disk space a file uses is an orthogonal problem that having distinct prefixes can't be expected to solve. Having distinct, unambiguous prefixes is still strictly better than having ambiguous prefixes.
They are not strictly better. Did you not read the part where I said I didn't want an extra column of "i"s that serves no real purpose?
What you personally have become accustomed to is irrelevant in the big picture and in the long run. That you can't think of any problems doesn't mean that no problems exist
It's not that I can't *think* of any problems. It's that I, like several other people here, I don't *have* said problems with the programs I use, and I don't particularly care to have that "fixed". Just because you can't tell whether the output of ls -lh is using binary or decimal prefixes doesn't mean it's a problem for everyone else.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance).
Actually, it is you who can't seem to think of any problems that would arise from changing almost everything. (or rather, you may be choosing to ignore said problems.)
In addition, you seem to be trying to move the burden of proof. Why do I need to prove that there isn't a problem? It is those who think it needs changing who should be proving there is a problem and that their proposed change actually fixes it without introducing new problems.
That you mistake an "SI" MB for a MiB, for example, is not an argument against consistent prefix usage. The quicker everybody stops using power of ten prefixes incorrectly, the quicker this transitional problem goes away.
I don't mistake an SI MB for a MiB. Our disagreement is because I don't mistake a non-SI MB for an SI one, and, presumably, you do. This is why you see the ambiguity as a serious problem and I don't.
I am not against consistent prefix usage. On the contrary, I have pointed out that all the programs I use consistently use MB to mean 2^20 bytes, and that I would rather not have this consistency broken by ever having one say MB when it means 10^6 bytes.
Your argment is not in favor of consistency, but rather in favor of explicitly indicating consistency. I would find it much less obtrusive to simply drop a file in / explaining that we are consistent. (But I also think that is unnecesary.)
Trying to adhere to what the outside world does will not make Debian consistent, because the outside world is not consistent.
http://foldoc.org/?query=megabyte http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/megabyte http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/megabyte http://dictionary.oed.com/cgi/entry/00304795
How about using these prefixes to unambiguously refer to powers of 10? kd kidi 10^3Like in kidigram and medameter? What comes next, midroutopicans?Yes, my intention was to make a silly set of prefixes whose only purpose was to look and sound silly while disambiguating from the commonly used ones we all know and love.An appeal to emotions, once again.
Maybe, but it doesn't change the fact that every argument you've made in favor of explicit binary prefixes applies equaly well to explicit decimal prefixes instead. It comes with the added benefit that we'd need to file a lot less bug reports.
I was actually kind of playing devil's advocate there, as I was arguing in favor of something I don't support. The part where the appeal to emotions comes in is that I don't expect you to support explicit decimal prefixes even though they are almost strictly better than what you do support.
Having distinct, unambiguous prefixes is still strictly better than having ambiguous prefixes.
So, that is saying it is strictly better to use the explicit binary *and* explicit decimal prefixes. My argument still holds that they are not strictly better because they do have the disadvantage of using an additional character.
Ivan