Bug#798460: apt: Testing transition broken
On Wed, 9 Sep 2015 22:08:18 +0200
David Kalnischkies <david@kalnischkies.de> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Wed, Sep 09, 2015 at 10:45:01PM +0800, clayton wrote:
> > I am a Testing user. One of my machines is upgraded. A couple days
> > later and I try to upgrade another with the gcc5 transition, and
> > apt is broken. "apt-get dist-upgrade" wants to remove 254 packages
> > and "apt-get install apt" wants to remove 121 packages.
>
> I read broken and instantly thing about segfaults, gcc5 linkr errors
> or other big headache stuff – and "all" you are complaining about is
> that APT presents you a solution you don't like…
> I am happy if that is all. :)
>
> Unstable users had to live with that for quite a while now thanks to
> the gcc5 & libstdc++6 transition. Testing users should be /mostly/
> uneffected, but now that the first parts of the transition entered
> testing you will see softer versions of transition pain as well.
>
> Its probably best to contact a debian support channel like a
> debian-user mailinglist and ask there for advice – but you will have
> to provide details details details for them – like the output apt
> actually produced.
>
> Removes aren't all "dangerous" removes. Many if not all of these
> removes are likely of the form "install new package libfoov5;
> removing package libfoo". That is 'normal' for the gcc5 transition.
> Then there will be packages who still depend on libfoo – like
> obsolete packages, packages not in testing at the moment, packages
> proposefully temporarily broken in testing to get the sub-transition
> over with faster, packages from third-party repositories … but nobody
> can help if all you tell us is "254" and "121".
>
> I am inclined to close as 'notabug', but I will give you a second
> chance at giving us some details so that it is actually possible to
> figure out what is the problem.
Just because it is not "OMG ITS COMPLETELY BROKEN" does not mean it is
not still broken. apt-get dist-upgrade basically wants to remove my
whole desktop. "apt-get install apt" still wants to remove essential
desktop apps: most or all of KDE and libreoffice, for starters.
Hey, I have been using Debian Testing for a long time (like more than a
decade) I am used to my desktop of preference breaking and then moving
to another for a while. But I don't think I am alone in viewing
libreoffice as essential and irreplaceable, and I would expect not to
be able to get libreoffice installed again for a while if I was to
upgrade in this state.
So I cannot upgrade in this state, therefore transition is broken for
me on this machine until the repository state changes. So I can wait for
a few days, sure.
But I would like to be able to recommend Debian as a desktop to my
Ubuntu-using friends. I personally do not consider a two+-year old
Debian Stable a reasonable desktop option. Therefore Debian Testing
must work for a reasonable person who is not a software engineer if we
are to compete with Ubuntu. This behavior does not make the cut.
Perhaps a bug against apt is not the place to make this stand, perhaps
apt can absolutely do no better in this scenario, and now it is your
turn to make that statement if it applies.
But for Debian as a whole this is definitely broken behavior that is not
suitable for public consumption. Most casual users would just upgrade
without paying much attention to the details and find themselves with
some serious breakage like uninstallable essential apps.
Clayton
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