Bug#727680: “Yes, do as I say!“ sounds odd
On Sun, Oct 27, 2013 at 2:55 PM, Fabien Givors (Debian)
<f+debian@chezlefab.net> wrote:
> David Kalnischkies wrote:
>> Stepping back for a second and freeing myself from the consequences:
>> How about dropping this question altogether?
>>
>> We have a flag which is (supposed to be) able to skip this question:
>> --force-yes which is described as being potentially harmful in the manpage.
>>
>> Rational:
>> Users who run into this question by 'accident' aren't saying yes to it;
>> Users who know they will because they are changing e.g. the init system
>> are just annoyed by the question.
>>
>> So how about:
>> […]
>> 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 5 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
>> After this operation, 5509 kB disk space will be freed.
>>
>> WARNING: The following essential packages will be removed:
>> apt
>> The outlined actions are potentially very harmful, so executing them
>> is refused by default, but can be forced with the --force-yes flag.
>> This should NOT be done unless you know exactly what you are doing!
>> #
>>
>> (I am open for a better suggestion regarding the actual message)
>>
>> It would be an interface change, but those aren't a problem, people
>> depending on the old one could just keep using the old version. SCNR.
>> What I really mean is: In this particular case, I really hope nobody
>> is doing something as insane as depending on this. [0]
>>
>> What do you two think?
> I'm rather against that.
>
> --force-all does't only force removal of essential packages, but also
> AFAIK installation from untrusted sources, etc.
>
> More generally, I think that options like "--force-all" shouls /never/
> be recommanded as good practices. (Correct me if I'm wrong.)
I agree, but I don't see how removing essentials could be interpreted as
"good practice" much as I don't see how using this flag to install from
untrusted sources could be. Note also that this flag is already supposed
to skip the question (that it isn't and asking for input were it can't
is the bug I mentioned briefly).
The manpage says:
Force yes; this is a dangerous option that will cause apt to continue
without prompting if it is doing something potentially harmful.
It should not be used except in very special situations.
Using force-yes can potentially destroy your system!
Configuration Item: APT::Get::force-yes.
There is the --yes option to say 'yes' by default to """safe""" questions
(e.g. purging a million packages is safe – I love it).
In fact, if untrusted sources are what you are after --allow-unauthenticated
is the way better option (beside making the source trusted of course).
The last remaining case where --force-yes applies more force than --yes does
is in regards to changing held packages, but there is a better option for it
with --ignore-hold, too.
Best regards
David Kalnischkies
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