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Re: dpkg-get and closed door development ...

At 11:09 AM +0900 1998.03.12, Richard Roberto wrote:
>So far I think that the name discussion about the deity project has
>been mis-used and blown out of porportion, but it stems from right
>thinking.  Bruce is absolutely right about the name being
>potentially offensive and its insensitive to not address this when
>debian has the ability to.  After seeing the post from Manoj, I'm
>convinced that the deity team is not able to make rational
>decisions about "their" tool (although I thought it was "debian's"
>tool).  Since this tool affects every other debian developer and
>user, that's the scope of consideration.  This is not an opinion,
>its reality.  Thinking that Jason coded it, so he can act in a
>vacuum, is just plain wrong.

   Are you reliable as an authority on reality?

>How can anyone in good conscious use terms like "suicide" in the
>standard output of a tool they expect to be widely used???  Does
>this term mean something in a different language that isn't
>completely negative?  All the same bantor about daemon demon and
>server apply here as well (from the nameing thread).  I think if you
>can justify something this insensitive, you can justify anything and
>you've lost all sense of reason.

   Is "0x73756963696465" negative?  That's what "suicide" is.  The
negativity you feel doesn't exist in the word -- it comes from something
you associate with it.  What's there for you when someone mentions
   Suicide isn't necessarily negative either.  In Chicago, there's a
memorial to a soldier who protected his comrades by throwing himself on a
live grenade.  He took his own life, became a hero, and had a monument
built in his honor.  Suicide can demonstrate cowardice or courage.

>I have an idea, why not make the tool pop up arbitrary windows with
>racial slurs in multple languages -- just for fun!  Just to show the
>world what a sense of humor Debian has, you should probably also
>name the menu button labels for terminal disease conditions, or
>handicaps of some sort.  That would be a great laugh I'm sure.

   Does being cynical get your point across?

>I have a hard time believing that if this was being developed (i.e.
>designed) on the pulbic list that now sports the minimal discussions
>about icons and such, things like this would have been addressed
>(because people like me would have seen them as they were being
>considered and made our feelings known).
>I'm not a developer, just a user -- but isn't that who the software
>is being developed for?  I'd be willing to bet that any wide spread
>use of this tool would no doubt bring many a mail to the debian-user
>list complaining about its offensive nature.

   Instead of complaining about the way things are, could you make a request?

>Please consider reviewing the tool now called deity and its

   Excellent!  Thank you for taking my suggestion, even before I'd made it.
It really feels great when people do that.

>components.  I think there is absolutley no technical reason to not
>be considerate of other people.  I understand that you can't please

   Ah, the truth at last!  You're committed to being considerate of people.
Thank you for sharing that.  Suppose you had just said that in the first

>everybody, but you can at least try to not go out of your way to
>piss on people.

   Please re-read your message and see if you didn't just go out of your
way to piss on people.

   I promise you we're going to be considerate of people.  I request that
you do the same.


Joshua Juran                          Metamage Software Creations
=)                                         Tools for Wizards
<http://www.metamage.com/>   * Creation at the highest state of the art *

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